banjar 'building' fees

Markit

Living here in a "decolonized" country it's often enlightening when trying to figure out what the feck the locals are trying to do with their strange regulations and laws to remember some of their motivation, either consciously or un, refers back to that time in their history when they didn't have free choice and many of the legal and religious decisions were taken by their lords and masters the Dutch. For instance the land ownership laws or the recent outcry from the world about banning unmarried people staying in a hotel together. I also often wonder if there was a secret ballot how many Africans would vote for a return of the Overlords from the west?

Mark

Shadrach wrote As I asked, for someone to please correct me if I was mistaken. Thanks Markit for your eloquent and insightful description of your septic tank! Please tell us Can a Foreigner buy land in Indonesia and have it in their name? [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]No, unless the land is either leased or under hak pakai. [/COLOR]Same for motorbike, car? [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]Can own in your own name with Kitas or Kitap.[/COLOR] I also asked if the amount a foreigner has to pay is the same as a local for these required dues to the Banjar? [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]Depends on the banjar, but usually not. Mine has published fees in two categories, Balinese Hindus from outside the banjar and foreigners/other Indonesians. The latter pays more. Local Balinese from the banjar may pay something (I've no idea how much) or sometimes can do general cleanup and maintenance work in lieu of payment.[/COLOR] I do know for a fact that in the States people are not charged different prices for goods! Are you saying they do? I never said that the west is Nirvana, and I do like living in the Wild East! I was only trying to point out how Westerners are charged more here for many things, that is true and you know it! [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]There is the infamous pajak putih (white tax) which can sometimes be applied by merchants in places where prices aren't marked, eg traditional markets. In this case, the foreigner pays an inflated price, unless you know the language and can figure out what something should cost. Some tourist attractions also charge more for non-Indonesians in a two tier structure. [/COLOR]To be noted, I did ask for correction if I was mistaken! Oh and Danke Schon for your enlightened German religious comment!

Shadrach

Markit wrote If you want to grow your own grub then I advise to either get involved with the hydroponics movement here on the island (upright irrigation tubes in buckets) or get some land much further up the mountains - Bedugul or Kintimani are best. The bugs will eat all you can grow down here on the coasts.

And if it's not the bugs, it's the hot weather! I tried to grow veggies in pots not far from the beach, and the white flies would wipe me out. The only things that thrived were aloe vera, okra, lemon and Thai basil. The greens just didn't like the warm nights and hot days. You're right about going up higher to grow food. Veggies really like cooler days and nights. Ubud, Mengwi, Bangli and such are a good start! I saw my friend higher up towards lake Batur and he had beautiful huge Broccoli and Cauliflower!

meremortal

Markit wrote If you want to grow your own grub then I advise to either get involved with the hydroponics movement here on the island (upright irrigation tubes in buckets) or get some land much further up the mountains - Bedugul or Kintimani are best. The bugs will eat all you can grow down here on the coasts.

thanks for the advice pests. as long as there's no rats (mind you i've used mothballs to rid of those) and ringtail possums (nearly extinct except on my property where there's scores because of the tall trees!) i'll be okay. have a natural cure for everything. i don't join groups (eg i'm not a team person - actually (un)lucky seeing me social networking, as too busy on my land. only joined this for help from guys like you - thank you very much! make everything from scratch using land husbandry. have over 40 different fruits (including the likes of pepinoes, sapote, persimmon, strawberry guavas, custard apples, plantains and custard apples - even a mango and it's no tropical weather here mate!), 8 berries and 7 veggie patches all bio organically grown and i personally regenerated and still do, soil on my own land - eg land husbandry - nothing from outside). organics are not usually organic when they come from others (as u mentioned they use plastic - luckily in bali we can use bamboo). hydroponics (lack of minerals to say the least) i wouldn't touch; and plastic (which they grow them in - eeek!) is the cause of all new age disease including cancer (eg copper overload - learned that in diagnostic orthomolecular medicine). so, i don't even put my food in plastic altho i admit it's hard to avoid the crap (as my fingers touch the keyboard). i'm hoping my pc and old non-idiot-fone nokia asha will go in the bin in bali along with the radiation! ps none of my rescues including my greyhound go to vets. i don't use hospitals or doctors (altho a surgeon may be of help if i am in an accident and unable to stitch me up). my last dog was 25 years when passing (he came to me at 3 years so if i'd got him from a babe i've no doubt he would have popped after 30. he's got a mum who uses mainly charcoal, whole homegrown food (we try to avoid nuts, seeds and grains) and homeopathy - lucky B!). ppl who venture on to my land in margaret river can't believe there are no slugs or snails with the amount of rain we get (none for 5 months this year - oh why do the whites not stop their incessant breeding!). i use ash from my woodfires (i've already organized ash from the village kitchens to remove white ants from my underground timber posts). charocal and ash are my favourite remedies and tools for cure eg i use ash to remove mites and lice from my choox, it not only keeps away unwanted pests on the veggie patches but also is a natural fertilizer (watch your tree go from hundreds of fruit to thousands in one harvest! all the rescued heritage roosters and 9 hens are coming to bali with me - still awaiting the approval but we'll get there soon ....). i've already heard there's an aussie(?) guy near balian who does permaculture but others know little compared to my background simply because they took yes or no for an answer from a screen or a friend. i learn by example/experience and that is why i'm the only woman over 55 to have surfed north point on a gnarly day and my dogs live til over 25 without going to vets. but guess what? no one seems to want to eat healthy :( . i hear that 'catch phrase' vegan all the time. this means eating organic tinned foods! haha. healthy food are green leaves. i say to the boys at the gym where i did my yoga practice: if you want strength eat green leaves. why? because that is what an ape eats and they are the strongest animals on the planet. greens, such as wheatgrass (will have to find a substitute in the tropics) are more or less a complete food eg contain all known minerals and vitamins. if you eat them raw their minerals and vitamins stay intact and they still contain enzymes which prevent cancer. any heat over the temp of the sun on Earth (46C degrees) will destroy food. check out the Essene Gospels - sadly the christians don't seem to want to study this part of the bible but a clever lad and the only person in the world who could transcribe the old script from the first king james bible that now sits in the vatican. copies are available on line and still cost only USD1. it goes something like this: 'lay your sprouted wheat in the sun for the angels to bless: dry/cook. but put it in an oven and the devil of fire will kill you'. if that's not a warning about cooked food then i don't know what is! at the risk of getting a bit tedious (you can see i'm passoinate about healht! - not typoes!) my experience has also taught me that digestion takes up about 90% or more of ones energy. this means if you eat raw you'll be bouncing around like a balloon even if you're an insomniac. thanks for everyone's help on this pod. i really appreciate it.

meremortal

Shadrach wrote And if it's not the bugs, it's the hot weather! I tried to grow veggies in pots not far from the beach, and the white flies would wipe me out. The only things that thrived were aloe vera, okra, lemon and Thai basil. The greens just didn't like the warm nights and hot days. You're right about going up higher to grow food. Veggies really like cooler days and nights. Ubud, Mengwi, Bangli and such are a good start! I saw my friend higher up towards lake Batur and he had beautiful huge Broccoli and Cauliflower!

yes, the property i'm eyeing at baturiti has a cabbage field next door (with no spraying!) and the guy who's selling the place has a permaculture garden. makes things easier so worth paying that extra 'foreign fee' to a foreigner!! !

harryopal1

meremortal wrote : ))

And may I ask how old you are? At 85 and having been a vegetarian for about 63 years I agree with many of your sentiments about avoiding processed foods and so on but I there is the reality that none of it guarantees immortality. I met many times with the eccentric Percy Cerutty (coach of the great middle distance runner Herb Elliott) whose outlook towards food and food preparation was much like your own and super fit in his 70s with running up sandhills and so on. But then he died at 80 which is a bit on the young side. Then there was the great Tommy Hafey who coached the Richmond football team to 4 premierships mostly based on super fitness. He never smoked or drank alcohol. Would never eat cake, even birthday cakes or eat sweets. He believed in home prepared meals. Into his 80s he got up at 5:20 am and went for an 8 km run, followed by 250 push-ups and a swim in Port Phillip Bay, and when he got home he did 700 crunches and sit-up. An early melanoma caught up with him and he died at 82. None of this is said as any kind of argument to your ideas on food. And morbidity studies do show that vegetarians as a group suffer much less from many of the diseases that afflict the general population. Hopefully mindfulness about what you eat and maintaining fitness will result in extra good years of life. However, in the end while life is wonderful it is also fickle. ![](https://balipod.com/uploads/attachments/4061-5ff5b8c7aaec78dac07ecaf0b8e4010c.png

Balifrog

harryopal1 wrote And may I ask how old you are? At 85 and having been a vegetarian for about 63 years I agree with many of your sentiments about avoiding processed foods and so on but I there is the reality that none of it guarantees immortality. I met many times with the eccentric Percy Cerutty (coach of the great middle distance runner Herb Elliott) whose outlook towards food and food preparation was much like your own and super fit in his 70s with running up sandhills and so on. But then he died at 80 which is a bit on the young side. Then there was the great Tommy Hafey who coached the Richmond football team to 4 premierships mostly based on super fitness. He never smoked or drank alcohol. Would never eat cake, even birthday cakes or eat sweets. He believed in home prepared meals. Into his 80s he got up at 5:20 am and went for an 8 km run, followed by 250 push-ups and a swim in Port Phillip Bay, and when he got home he did 700 crunches and sit-up. An early melanoma caught up with him and he died at 82. None of this is said as any kind of argument to your ideas on food. And morbidity studies do show that vegetarians as a group suffer much less from many of the diseases that afflict the general population. Hopefully mindfulness about what you eat and maintaining fitness will result in extra good years of life. However, in the end while life is wonderful it is also fickle. [ATTACH type="full" alt="1710679637788.png"]4061[/ATTACH]

So, if I understand this well, the only difference is that they died in good health ?

meremortal

harryopal1 wrote And may I ask how old you are? At 85 and having been a vegetarian for about 63 years I agree with many of your sentiments about avoiding processed foods and so on but I there is the reality that none of it guarantees immortality. I met many times with the eccentric Percy Cerutty (coach of the great middle distance runner Herb Elliott) whose outlook towards food and food preparation was much like your own and super fit in his 70s with running up sandhills and so on. But then he died at 80 which is a bit on the young side. Then there was the great Tommy Hafey who coached the Richmond football team to 4 premierships mostly based on super fitness. He never smoked or drank alcohol. Would never eat cake, even birthday cakes or eat sweets. He believed in home prepared meals. Into his 80s he got up at 5:20 am and went for an 8 km run, followed by 250 push-ups and a swim in Port Phillip Bay, and when he got home he did 700 crunches and sit-up. An early melanoma caught up with him and he died at 82. None of this is said as any kind of argument to your ideas on food. And morbidity studies do show that vegetarians as a group suffer much less from many of the diseases that afflict the general population. Hopefully mindfulness about what you eat and maintaining fitness will result in extra good years of life. However, in the end while life is wonderful it is also fickle. [ATTACH type="full" alt="1710679637788.png"]4061[/ATTACH]

i'm 68 years young errrr...... nah since the yoga and surfing stopped a couple of years ago i've deteriorated to old!! studying diagnostic orthomolecular medicine one will learn why that guy only lasted to 75 and the other one to 85. my dad did 95 (and he still didn't really die of dis-ease but rather accident) and he certainly wasn't a vegetarian and didn't drink water (why he died after the accident). it's not just about food, as i've indicated above. it's also how many of those white 'ceramic' toxic fillings you put in your gob that only last for 5 years and then youse get a jab for LA filled with nano=particles and aluminium and then t he local govt sprays glyphosate in your face ...... now how could those, apparently healthy, guys who died above last longer? remove the chems and toxicmetals such as Al, Pb,mercury and the likes. how do you do that? fast (using only charcoal filtered spring water from your own land - the stuff in bottles are filled with aluminium which is the 3rd biggest killer in the uk eg dementia). you can also use your own HOME MADE charcoal to rid toxic elements (drink a slurry regularly for a long period of time) or homeopathy whilst continuing with one's own HOME-GROWN bio organic soil grown veg and fruit not using plastic. i've been getting regular HTMA (hair tissue mineral analyses) the last two decades and i also can interpret the results (eg what u say is not what you get as certain imbalanced minerals etc will 'block' your mercury or tungsten or whatever readings). as i said i'm passionate about health eg spent the last 30 years (when not rescuing animals, surfing or yogaing) studying from books and gurus (dr igor tabrizian) and experimenting/experiencing from animals i rescue and feed and myself compared to others of my age. i was definitely the only female surfing north point over 55 years. in fact there was only myself and another regular girl who was the daughter of a world champ surfer (many of those down here!). i'll die early as i haven't slept much for 47 years (35 of those almost nothing). i also don't relax at all as this property is far too much work for a little guy like me (i have short term rentals - sometimes up to 7 people as well as the orchard and veggie paches i speak of. i've done all my building projects of course employing ppl over the last 23 years but i design everything myself). i also ate lots of sugar and still do but not the white variety. ps i don't believe cancer kills us. i believe the ego of the person does as if that ego didn't get in the way cancer would definitely cure eg we change our diets and lifestyles unless we're stuck like a pig in a poke as i have been the last decade plus. not sure the latter is mentioned in the book 'cancer is not a disease' but please read if you get the chance along with dr neil benson's book 'on the origin of diseases' (published just before korona), the wheel of life by a london college of surgeons PhDer who followed his predecessor's journey to 'Hunza country' to work out why they lived up to 180 and fathered kids at 100 years (as did the australian aboriginals before the wite men wiped nearly all of them out); also read Health Wars by Philip Day (altho a bit dated it has some really interesting points about health along with lots of other, what-was-once, controversial stuff), also read the Banerji protocols (so you can avoid what they call 'doctors' who haven't had to study chemistry); also read the book Water and Salt by Philip Day and Dr F Batman; i'd also ask you to read the Science and Fine Art of Fasting by Herbert Shelton the pioneer of this art but i think that's going a bit far and is a hard read for anyone not overly passionate about health. ; ). i would add, however, The China Study written by the Campbells (PhDs), sons of a farmer who died early in life eating his own fresh dairy! it's nothing about China but it explains how proteins from meat (remember green leaves have more protein than meat but i won't go there!) and aflatoxins from processed peanut butter (bad quality peanuts) give us cancer more than other foods. Eg the guys that wrote this book wanted to prove to doctors and scientists that it wasn't about the testing of the rats or experimenting on humans with their drugs etc but more about what diet was avaialble to the subject matter. phew, i'm getting tedious again. after my first visit in 1976 i dreamt of living in bali and despite having the opportunity in the early part of this century i opted to stay in margs due to my love of North Point (only a surfer knows the feeling - hey BF check that one out! heehee). 9 years ago i had 4 countries/islands i picked with the prerequisites for my lifestyle. bali came up trumps every time when it came to what i wished for and needed along with a javanese friend who has offered to care for me in my ill health (no one would want to go to an OP home in australia. it's disgusting the way the elderly are treated here eg i went to visit old arthur (about 98) the other day and he had no hearing aids in and when i enquired as to where they were as it seemed it hadn't had them for months they said it was none of my business! the daughter visits him but obviously she doesn't care either (she's not nice from my infrequent meetings with her). anyways, there's a thousand other places to go if bali isn't the absolute miracle i hope it to be! ; )) ps i don't want to be immortal. i just want to die surfing ooops! that doesn't sound good. i just want to be able to sit in badda konasana for hours when i am a centenarian ... which reminds me ... pls don't forget the mind. that is the most important. and for that i'm sure you've read The Power of Now (my bible) but having said that my busy life running this property the last ten years hasn't allowed me to even venture near that one for a squizz! now it will happen .... ps margaret river is freezing 8 months of the year and i hate the cold altho my greyhound doesn't.

Balifrog

meremortal wrote i'm 68 years young errrr...... nah since the yoga and surfing stopped a couple of years ago i've deteriorated to old!! studying diagnostic orthomolecular medicine one will learn why that guy only lasted to 75 and the other one to 85. my dad did 95 (and he still didn't really die of dis-ease but rather accident) and he certainly wasn't a vegetarian and didn't drink water (why he died after the accident). it's not just about food, as i've indicated above. it's also how many of those white 'ceramic' toxic fillings you put in your gob that only last for 5 years and then youse get a jab for LA filled with nano=particles and aluminium and then t he local govt sprays glyphosate in your face ...... now how could those, apparently healthy, guys who died above last longer? remove the chems and toxicmetals such as Al, Pb,mercury and the likes. how do you do that? fast (using only charcoal filtered spring water from your own land - the stuff in bottles are filled with aluminium which is the 3rd biggest killer in the uk eg dementia). you can also use your own HOME MADE charcoal to rid toxic elements (drink a slurry regularly for a long period of time) or homeopathy whilst continuing with one's own HOME-GROWN bio organic soil grown veg and fruit not using plastic. i've been getting regular HTMA (hair tissue mineral analyses) the last two decades and i also can interpret the results (eg what u say is not what you get as certain imbalanced minerals etc will 'block' your mercury or tungsten or whatever readings). as i said i'm passionate about health eg spent the last 30 years (when not rescuing animals, surfing or yogaing) studying from books and gurus (dr igor tabrizian) and experimenting/experiencing from animals i rescue and feed and myself compared to others of my age. i was definitely the only female surfing north point over 55 years. in fact there was only myself and another regular girl who was the daughter of a world champ surfer (many of those down here!). i'll die early as i haven't slept much for 47 years (35 of those almost nothing). i also don't relax at all as this property is far too much work for a little guy like me (i have short term rentals - sometimes up to 7 people as well as the orchard and veggie paches i speak of. i've done all my building projects of course employing ppl over the last 23 years but i design everything myself). i also ate lots of sugar and still do but not the white variety. ps i don't believe cancer kills us. i believe the ego of the person does as if that ego didn't get in the way cancer would definitely cure eg we change our diets and lifestyles unless we're stuck like a pig in a poke as i have been the last decade plus. not sure the latter is mentioned in the book 'cancer is not a disease' but please read if you get the chance along with dr neil benson's book 'on the origin of diseases' (published just before korona), the wheel of life by a london college of surgeons PhDer who followed his predecessor's journey to 'Hunza country' to work out why they lived up to 180 and fathered kids at 100 years (as did the australian aboriginals before the wite men wiped nearly all of them out); also read Health Wars by Philip Day (altho a bit dated it has some really interesting points about health along with lots of other, what-was-once, controversial stuff), also read the Banerji protocols (so you can avoid what they call 'doctors' who haven't had to study chemistry); also read the book Water and Salt by Philip Day and Dr F Batman; i'd also ask you to read the Science and Fine Art of Fasting by Herbert Shelton the pioneer of this art but i think that's going a bit far and is a hard read for anyone not overly passionate about health. ; ). i would add, however, The China Study written by the Campbells (PhDs), sons of a farmer who died early in life eating his own fresh dairy! it's nothing about China but it explains how proteins from meat (remember green leaves have more protein than meat but i won't go there!) and aflatoxins from processed peanut butter (bad quality peanuts) give us cancer more than other foods. Eg the guys that wrote this book wanted to prove to doctors and scientists that it wasn't about the testing of the rats or experimenting on humans with their drugs etc but more about what diet was avaialble to the subject matter. phew, i'm getting tedious again. after my first visit in 1976 i dreamt of living in bali and despite having the opportunity in the early part of this century i opted to stay in margs due to my love of North Point (only a surfer knows the feeling - hey BF check that one out! heehee). 9 years ago i had 4 countries/islands i picked with the prerequisites for my lifestyle. bali came up trumps every time when it came to what i wished for and needed along with a javanese friend who has offered to care for me in my ill health (no one would want to go to an OP home in australia. it's disgusting the way the elderly are treated here eg i went to visit old arthur (about 98) the other day and he had no hearing aids in and when i enquired as to where they were as it seemed it hadn't had them for months they said it was none of my business! the daughter visits him but obviously she doesn't care either (she's not nice from my infrequent meetings with her). anyways, there's a thousand other places to go if bali isn't the absolute miracle i hope it to be! ; )) ps i don't want to be immortal. i just want to die surfing ooops! that doesn't sound good. i just want to be able to sit in badda konasana for hours when i am a centenarian ... which reminds me ... pls don't forget the mind. that is the most important. and for that i'm sure you've read The Power of Now (my bible) but having said that my busy life running this property the last ten years hasn't allowed me to even venture near that one for a squizz! now it will happen .... ps margaret river is freezing 8 months of the year and i hate the cold altho my greyhound doesn't.

Bloody hell mate, can you try to use commas, points and paragraphs ? That thing is impossible to read !

JDW100

Markit wrote These posts are wrong on so many levels I suspect I can't be of any more help;. If you believe as you say that these lovely people are "out to get you" because you are a foreigner then that's your take on reality and has nothing to do with mine, nothing. If you believe that in the west no one is treated similarly (or, god forbid, worse) then one can only wonder why you've chosen to abandon that Nirvana for the "wild east" and wish you a speedy return. Don't let the door hit in the ass.

My experience is thta the Banjar is out to get you, if they can squeeze any money from you they will do so. Recent examples from last twelve months: - Friend has known banjar in area for years. Built a villa on the understanding that banjar would build better access to his plot and others to be constructed. Much shaking of hands. As soon as villa nearing construction he’s told he must pay $10k for a ‘road’ and access. What happened to the promises? ‘Oh ha ha ha ‘pak, sorry now you must pay, ha, ha ,ha’. - Sanur, I know someone that owns a cafe. Again, known banjar guys for years. He tried his best to support staff during covid. Didn’t take a salary out for three years and has just started making better money again . Had a visit in Jan from three reps from banjar - outcome they want 3jt a month. Okay. Oh but we want it backdated 2 years. Two of his staff are tight with Banjar and obviously had given them financial info. Was able to negotiate it down. Has literally had banjar in his cafe every month for a coffee for years and they never mentioned any payments required. - In my street; trying to rip off people for a 500k a month donation. My wife is Indonesian and said ‘this is our house not a business’ so they immediately backed down, we pay 100k as it is a family home. Others have been paying the 500k for a while until it came up in discussion, when challenged Banjar changed to 100k as these are homes, not businesses. Refund the money? ‘Oh ha ha ha sorry cannot ha ha ha’. - friend has just won in court (amazingly) for access to a villa complex she built. Banjar extortion after the villas were constructed. All good until near the opening date and suddenly needs to pay some crazy sum for 10 years access. They lost. She is now too scared to visit her own properties. - My business: friendly with local Head. Been for coffee with him. Checked numerous times ‘all okay with us, no problems?’ Always a positive answer back. Banjar summoned my Balinese manager to a meeting. Apparently ‘angry’ we have broken some rules by having events and not paying for pecalang security. We must now pay 3jt a month. What events? Can you define an event? Our ‘events’ are attended by same number of normal guests. We want to abide by all rules: so can we have in writing please? Two days later a police/customs raid. This banjar guy has had coffee with me, discussed family, yet doesn’t have the courage to tell me he is unhappy or most likely he just has seen an opportunity to make some cash. We can’t prove it but sure he is cahoots with staff: they probably split some of the ‘fines’ and ongoing regular payments. More fool them: they were on great contracts: service, BPJS, holiday pay…the works. Just have not extended the contracts and are replacing with staff from Java. I can think of more examples. Greedy, corrupt, cowardly, two faced: will rip you off and then smile at you next day.

meremortal

harryopal1 wrote Meremortal ".... 9 years ago i had 4 countries/islands i picked with the prerequisites for my lifestyle. bali came up trumps every time..." The Bali of 9 years ago is not the Bali of 2024. Impossible traffic now especially near the popular surfing beaches. Suggest you make another visit before committing. Nonetheless I am happy living in Bali.

thanks harry; however, i didn't base my decision on 9 years ago. that was actually when i made a list of 9 countries to pick which one would carry my move forward the most. i think having all the experience in indonesia since 1977, that i have, was providing me this decision; however, as you say it's changed too much (particularly since the skam - but that's changed everywhere look at australia (the most controlled and corrupt government in the world but no one can see this!). altho where i bought my future home i ensured i didn't have much westernization nearby; particularly spraying for dengue etc. that's my primary reason for leaving a rich country (eg the more money a country has the more chemicalized the food and government spraying programmes - of course it is they can afford the chemicals and machines to overly process the faktori fodda. having read all the comments it seems to me i'm better off avoiding bali and picking another country (not liking other parts of indonesia except gili air which has also been corrupted by the westerners over the decades). hard to find a place untouched and destroyed by us whities but i'm sure there's somewhere. i'll keep looking. kalk bay in cape town is a nice little village ... ps balinese are hindu and so are indians. my father was brought up in india. i remember him telling us as kids in the 60s not to give an indian a pen if he needed it to write his name/address etc as you'd never get it back. guess it's the same in Bali altho i don't remember it as it is portrayed in the comments. i also know a couple of older australian ladies who live in areas outside the 'main drag'. they don't pay donations altho they like to help financially, one telling me she never paid anything to the banjar. i now think it was a mistake to buy a property in bali and i should have known about being able to ask youse guys before i went ahead. i've now got it on the market and am pondering my future! any suggestions? got time to make a decision as poor midget the greyhound won't make bali due to his age/respiratory problems. nicer for him to stay in a cool climate where he won't bump into the furniture (he's blind and deaf too) but still well over the average age of a dead greyhound.... ;( really grateful for the feedback.

Shadrach

JDW100 wrote My experience is thta the Banjar is out to get you, if they can squeeze any money from you they will do so. Recent examples from last twelve months: - Friend has known banjar in area for years. Built a villa on the understanding that banjar would build better access to his plot and others to be constructed. Much shaking of hands. As soon as villa nearing construction he’s told he must pay $10k for a ‘road’ and access. What happened to the promises? ‘Oh ha ha ha ‘pak, sorry now you must pay, ha, ha ,ha’. - Sanur, I know someone that owns a cafe. Again, known banjar guys for years. He tried his best to support staff during covid. Didn’t take a salary out for three years and has just started making better money again . Had a visit in Jan from three reps from banjar - outcome they want 3jt a month. Okay. Oh but we want it backdated 2 years. Two of his staff are tight with Banjar and obviously had given them financial info. Was able to negotiate it down. Has literally had banjar in his cafe every month for a coffee for years and they never mentioned any payments required. - In my street; trying to rip off people for a 500k a month donation. My wife is Indonesian and said ‘this is our house not a business’ so they immediately backed down, we pay 100k as it is a family home. Others have been paying the 500k for a while until it came up in discussion, when challenged Banjar changed to 100k as these are homes, not businesses. Refund the money? ‘Oh ha ha ha sorry cannot ha ha ha’. - friend has just won in court (amazingly) for access to a villa complex she built. Banjar extortion after the villas were constructed. All good until near the opening date and suddenly needs to pay some crazy sum for 10 years access. They lost. She is now too scared to visit her own properties. - My business: friendly with local Head. Been for coffee with him. Checked numerous times ‘all okay with us, no problems?’ Always a positive answer back. Banjar summoned my Balinese manager to a meeting. Apparently ‘angry’ we have broken some rules by having events and not paying for pecalang security. We must now pay 3jt a month. What events? Can you define an event? Our ‘events’ are attended by same number of normal guests. We want to abide by all rules: so can we have in writing please? Two days later a police/customs raid. This banjar guy has had coffee with me, discussed family, yet doesn’t have the courage to tell me he is unhappy or most likely he just has seen an opportunity to make some cash. We can’t prove it but sure he is cahoots with staff: they probably split some of the ‘fines’ and ongoing regular payments. More fool them: they were on great contracts: service, BPJS, holiday pay…the works. Just have not extended the contracts and are replacing with staff from Java. I can think of more examples. Greedy, corrupt, cowardly, two faced: will rip you off and then smile at you next day.

I am glad you spoke up about this issue! It seems strange to me that you have to pay for access to your home? What if you live on a main road? As I mentioned before about my friend having a birthday party for friends. She had to hire local Pecalang security to watch over less than 20 motorbikes. I saw the owners and locals of the property helping themselves to food and drink without offering anything, just taking! So the dream of coming here and creating your own Garden of Eden, orchards, gardens, nice home and outbuildings and being left in peace is an illusion. Even if you hire locals to work,cook,clean, etc. it is never enough! Why should people have to pay a Banjar tax if the person doesn't participate in the religion or ceremonies? Isn't hiring locals, buying from local warungs, petrol, garden supplies, enough? Honest communication is not something to be expected, it's always tungu sebentar ( wait a moment) which means they probably can't help you or they don't have what you want and can't say it at that moment. Usually if they can't do as you want, they just ignore you and say nothing, and don't return! If this is not a person's experience here, they are one of the lucky few. I like your last sentence! It's so true!

meremortal

Markit wrote Clearly people have different experiences with the local bureaucracy and they for sure aren't all happy but, out of curiosity, can you say where you are on the island? Apparently I live in a blissfully happy corner of Bali where I've never heard of anything like this happening in the last 15 years around me. Sadly some people cause this type of reaction with the way they confront their neighbors and treat the locals. I have seen that type of reaction often enough usually from old Colonial Dutchmen and egotistical, been here 30 times with my 'Balinese family' and they will always look after me, Ozzies. Not saying this is the present situation but have just seen similar things like this.

it's so good to hear your views as they are more positive but with caution. thank you again. i'm now in a quandary what to do! but have a bit of time to ponder ....

tel522

JDW100 wrote My experience is thta the Banjar is out to get you, if they can squeeze any money from you they will do so. Recent examples from last twelve months: - Friend has known banjar in area for years. Built a villa on the understanding that banjar would build better access to his plot and others to be constructed. Much shaking of hands. As soon as villa nearing construction he’s told he must pay $10k for a ‘road’ and access. What happened to the promises? ‘Oh ha ha ha ‘pak, sorry now you must pay, ha, ha ,ha’. - Sanur, I know someone that owns a cafe. Again, known banjar guys for years. He tried his best to support staff during covid. Didn’t take a salary out for three years and has just started making better money again . Had a visit in Jan from three reps from banjar - outcome they want 3jt a month. Okay. Oh but we want it backdated 2 years. Two of his staff are tight with Banjar and obviously had given them financial info. Was able to negotiate it down. Has literally had banjar in his cafe every month for a coffee for years and they never mentioned any payments required. - In my street; trying to rip off people for a 500k a month donation. My wife is Indonesian and said ‘this is our house not a business’ so they immediately backed down, we pay 100k as it is a family home. Others have been paying the 500k for a while until it came up in discussion, when challenged Banjar changed to 100k as these are homes, not businesses. Refund the money? ‘Oh ha ha ha sorry cannot ha ha ha’. - friend has just won in court (amazingly) for access to a villa complex she built. Banjar extortion after the villas were constructed. All good until near the opening date and suddenly needs to pay some crazy sum for 10 years access. They lost. She is now too scared to visit her own properties. - My business: friendly with local Head. Been for coffee with him. Checked numerous times ‘all okay with us, no problems?’ Always a positive answer back. Banjar summoned my Balinese manager to a meeting. Apparently ‘angry’ we have broken some rules by having events and not paying for pecalang security. We must now pay 3jt a month. What events? Can you define an event? Our ‘events’ are attended by same number of normal guests. We want to abide by all rules: so can we have in writing please? Two days later a police/customs raid. This banjar guy has had coffee with me, discussed family, yet doesn’t have the courage to tell me he is unhappy or most likely he just has seen an opportunity to make some cash. We can’t prove it but sure he is cahoots with staff: they probably split some of the ‘fines’ and ongoing regular payments. More fool them: they were on great contracts: service, BPJS, holiday pay…the works. Just have not extended the contracts and are replacing with staff from Java. I can think of more examples. Greedy, corrupt, cowardly, two faced: will rip you off and then smile at you next day.

Im interested to understand where in bali these extortionate charges are ? we live in a normal perumahan in a normal house and pay " naff all " for banjar contributions since covid , before that it was 50k per year , ya we dont live in a big fancy villa .

Markit

meremortal wrote it's so good to hear your views as they are more positive but with caution. thank you again. i'm now in a quandary what to do! but have a bit of time to ponder ....

I think many people leave behind a terrible life and find one again where they've fled to - I suspect they may have brought it with them or at least the capability to create one. I say to anyone wishing to have a good experience of Bali to try and find some locals to support you that you can give your trust to even if you are paying them for theirs. The higher up the food chain they are and with deep (Balinese) religious beliefs - actually a no-brainer here, a good, respected member of the local society, family with children and a good stable job and you will have few problems. Get everything in writing, remember a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. Be friendly and humble in your needs and respect their beliefs and customs - that doesn't mean you should dress like them or follow their holidays or ceremonies (unless you like that stuff) but just have some understanding for this world. Story: friend called me up livid with anger as the man I'd recommended to him was taking a day other than the agreed weekend off without begging my friends permission. I had to point out to my friend that he was possibly the only person on the island that didn't realize it was a full moon that day and that ALL the locals take off for that day and many more. Expats seem to make the mistake thinking they can act and regulate life here with contracts and witnesses and judicial b.s. just like can where they come from - it just aint so, sorry.

Balifrog

JDW100 wrote My experience is thta the Banjar is out to get you, if they can squeeze any money from you they will do so. Recent examples from last twelve months: - Friend has known banjar in area for years. Built a villa on the understanding that banjar would build better access to his plot and others to be constructed. Much shaking of hands. As soon as villa nearing construction he’s told he must pay $10k for a ‘road’ and access. What happened to the promises? ‘Oh ha ha ha ‘pak, sorry now you must pay, ha, ha ,ha’. - Sanur, I know someone that owns a cafe. Again, known banjar guys for years. He tried his best to support staff during covid. Didn’t take a salary out for three years and has just started making better money again . Had a visit in Jan from three reps from banjar - outcome they want 3jt a month. Okay. Oh but we want it backdated 2 years. Two of his staff are tight with Banjar and obviously had given them financial info. Was able to negotiate it down. Has literally had banjar in his cafe every month for a coffee for years and they never mentioned any payments required. - In my street; trying to rip off people for a 500k a month donation. My wife is Indonesian and said ‘this is our house not a business’ so they immediately backed down, we pay 100k as it is a family home. Others have been paying the 500k for a while until it came up in discussion, when challenged Banjar changed to 100k as these are homes, not businesses. Refund the money? ‘Oh ha ha ha sorry cannot ha ha ha’. - friend has just won in court (amazingly) for access to a villa complex she built. Banjar extortion after the villas were constructed. All good until near the opening date and suddenly needs to pay some crazy sum for 10 years access. They lost. She is now too scared to visit her own properties. - My business: friendly with local Head. Been for coffee with him. Checked numerous times ‘all okay with us, no problems?’ Always a positive answer back. Banjar summoned my Balinese manager to a meeting. Apparently ‘angry’ we have broken some rules by having events and not paying for pecalang security. We must now pay 3jt a month. What events? Can you define an event? Our ‘events’ are attended by same number of normal guests. We want to abide by all rules: so can we have in writing please? Two days later a police/customs raid. This banjar guy has had coffee with me, discussed family, yet doesn’t have the courage to tell me he is unhappy or most likely he just has seen an opportunity to make some cash. We can’t prove it but sure he is cahoots with staff: they probably split some of the ‘fines’ and ongoing regular payments. More fool them: they were on great contracts: service, BPJS, holiday pay…the works. Just have not extended the contracts and are replacing with staff from Java. I can think of more examples. Greedy, corrupt, cowardly, two faced: will rip you off and then smile at you next day.

30 years in the region.... One thing I learned very fast "Don't trust anybody". And that includes other foreigners !

Foamcrest

Markit I agree with you wholeheartedly. Even though we don’t live there we have some amazing Bali friends who we value greatly. There are those who visit or live in Bali who only scratch the surface of the Balinese people and their culture as they, knowingly or from sheer ignorance, perceive themselves as above or superior to the ‘natives’. Additionally Markit lives in an area I call ‘the real Bali’, wrong I know but it’s just my feeling for the area. It’s changing of course as the western influences infiltrate the area to the betterment, in it a lot of cases to the locals. We all make mistakes like the time I was at a family ceremony and when I received the grain of rice I ate it instead of putting it on my forehead. My ignorance of the culture but they all laughed and were not offended. We’ve been to weddings, funerals blessings including our villa. We have a spirit, a beautiful woman who comes from the ravine that runs beside our villa. She been seen by our staff and an Australian woman who lives nearby. It’s all about Bali and people. We love them their culture and customs. Well said Markit.

Shadrach

It's interesting that people are ignoring the subject matter of the person talking about how the local Banjar is trying to bleed the foreigner for money! As they said, once they pay for so called access there will be something in the future the Banjar will want more money for! If a person is developing a piece of land, building a house, hiring construction crews, shopping locally, probably hiring many locals for various things. Isn't that enough? I've never understood how someone can sell land without access? What if a person just wants to develop a piece of land how they want as long as it's not hurting the water flow or building a bridge, to get to their home. Why can't they just be left in peace? Why should a person be forced to pay the local community money? If they want to participate in the local religious ceremonies, then they can join the Banjar and pay fees, but what if they don't? It seems to live here there is a tax on just living here, not only to the government but to the local community also. It's nice some have found friends here, but that has nothing to do with the original subject!

AuroraB

JDW100 wrote My experience is thta the Banjar is out to get you, if they can squeeze any money from you they will do so. Recent examples from last twelve months: - Friend has known banjar in area for years. Built a villa on the understanding that banjar would build better access to his plot and others to be constructed. Much shaking of hands. As soon as villa nearing construction he’s told he must pay $10k for a ‘road’ and access. What happened to the promises? ‘Oh ha ha ha ‘pak, sorry now you must pay, ha, ha ,ha’. - Sanur, I know someone that owns a cafe. Again, known banjar guys for years. He tried his best to support staff during covid. Didn’t take a salary out for three years and has just started making better money again . Had a visit in Jan from three reps from banjar - outcome they want 3jt a month. Okay. Oh but we want it backdated 2 years. Two of his staff are tight with Banjar and obviously had given them financial info. Was able to negotiate it down. Has literally had banjar in his cafe every month for a coffee for years and they never mentioned any payments required. - In my street; trying to rip off people for a 500k a month donation. My wife is Indonesian and said ‘this is our house not a business’ so they immediately backed down, we pay 100k as it is a family home. Others have been paying the 500k for a while until it came up in discussion, when challenged Banjar changed to 100k as these are homes, not businesses. Refund the money? ‘Oh ha ha ha sorry cannot ha ha ha’. - friend has just won in court (amazingly) for access to a villa complex she built. Banjar extortion after the villas were constructed. All good until near the opening date and suddenly needs to pay some crazy sum for 10 years access. They lost. She is now too scared to visit her own properties. - My business: friendly with local Head. Been for coffee with him. Checked numerous times ‘all okay with us, no problems?’ Always a positive answer back. Banjar summoned my Balinese manager to a meeting. Apparently ‘angry’ we have broken some rules by having events and not paying for pecalang security. We must now pay 3jt a month. What events? Can you define an event? Our ‘events’ are attended by same number of normal guests. We want to abide by all rules: so can we have in writing please? Two days later a police/customs raid. This banjar guy has had coffee with me, discussed family, yet doesn’t have the courage to tell me he is unhappy or most likely he just has seen an opportunity to make some cash. We can’t prove it but sure he is cahoots with staff: they probably split some of the ‘fines’ and ongoing regular payments. More fool them: they were on great contracts: service, BPJS, holiday pay…the works. Just have not extended the contracts and are replacing with staff from Java. I can think of more examples. Greedy, corrupt, cowardly, two faced: will rip you off and then smile at you next day.

Thanks for sharing. I'm staying in south Denpasar, so mention of Sanur in this context comes as no surprise. No surprise that your cultivation of local head / banjar did not pay off. If I see them around it is always about "donations". I decided years ago to keep my financial footprint to a minimum here as there is no way to manage risks due to the immense corruption, thuggery and extortion going on. I stick to renting villa and can leave on short notice when required.

Markit

Shadrach wrote It's interesting that people are ignoring the subject matter of the person talking about how the local Banjar is trying to bleed the foreigner for money! [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Nobody is ignoring anything - you are just too underlit to see what we are talking about - for the low wattage among us - it's not about a particular problem it's about the entire mind set that's causing the problems. [/COLOR]As they said, once they pay for so called access there will be something in the future the Banjar will want more money for! [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Of course there will be - have you not heard of council tax? sales tax? inheritance tax, vat ? etc. these are all methods of extracting further payments from trapped individual. The secret is to try and keep them to a minimum. [/COLOR]If a person is developing a piece of land, building a house, hiring construction crews, shopping locally, probably hiring many locals for various things. Isn't that enough? [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Is that "enough" in any other country in the world? Suggest you build a house in your home town Buttfuk, Idaho and try convincing the the other Buttfukians you've paid enough and they ain't getting a dime more for water/road/trash/rates/taxes.[/COLOR] I've never understood how someone can sell land without access? [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]And I've never understood how someone can BUY land without access? [/COLOR] What if a person just wants to develop a piece of land how they want as long as it's not hurting the water flow or building a bridge, to get to their home. Why can't they just be left in peace? [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]And all sitting around singing Kumbaya trading organic, vegan recipes. [/COLOR]Why should a person be forced to pay the local community money? [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]See above[/COLOR] If they want to participate in the local religious ceremonies, then they can join the Banjar and pay fees, but what if they don't? It seems to live here there is a tax on just living here, not only to the government but to the local community also.

Shadrach wrote It's nice some have found friends here, but that has nothing to do with the original subject!

You need to up the meds friend.

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