Second home visa - guarantor letter

Metter

I am looking at applying for the second home visa. The application form is now on the same site as the E-VOA. You need to provide the name of a guarantor and a letter. I am unable to find a template for this and there is also conflicting information on government sites saying a guarantor is not required because of the money held in Indonesian bank. Any advice or could immigration likely provide clarity?

Markit

Please help us all to follow your endeavors in attempting to get this visa. I've been trying to wade through the many, many idiocies engendered in this example of what the kids get up to when the only adult has left the room now since it originally was published several months ago. My results so far: no one, not even immigrations understand what it means or how to apply it. If I was you I'd really wait until it has been applied a few times before investing any money or effort in trying to apply for it. I thought about listing all the conflicting ideas in it but there are so many I gave up. Good luck.

Metter

Please help us all to follow your endeavors in attempting to get this visa. I've been trying to wade through the many, many idiocies engendered in this example of what the kids get up to when the only adult has left the room now since it originally was published several months ago. My results so far: no one, not even immigrations understand what it means or how to apply it. If I was you I'd really wait until it has been applied a few times before investing any money or effort in trying to apply for it. I thought about listing all the conflicting ideas in it but there are so many I gave up. Good luck.

Happy to keep this group updated. There is a clear application for the initial entry visa now. It is a seperate application on the official site - https://molina.imigrasi.go.id The only issue is the need to a guarantor despite other official information saying a guarantor is not required. Thankfully all my Bali trips next year are under 60 days so I can keep using VOA till I have the clarity.

AuroraB

Requirements for the Second Home (SH) VITAS part seems to be covered by https://molina.imigrasi.go.id It is stated "Proof of Fund in the form of an account owned by a foreigner or Guarantor with a value of at least IDR 2,000,000,000.00 (two billion rupiah) or equivalent". 1. There is no mention of who can act as "Guarantor". This is probably an opportunity for agents to make a mint. 2. There is no mention of the "luxury property". So it appears that cash or guarantee is required for the SH VITAS. Regarding the SH KITAS part: covered by the latest "circular" from imigrasi, I found an english version here: https://www.letsmoveindonesia.com/the-second-home-visa-kitas/ After a cursory review a few things popped up: 1. There is no clear definition of purpose/responsibilities for a "Guarantor" required for the SH KITAS part. 2. Property is defined as "land and buildings owned by foreigner in accordance to laws and regulations". What type of "ownership" will be accepted as foreigners (persons) cannot own land here? Some other agents mentioned that Hak Pakai? is required. 3. It is stated that SH KITAS is limited to validity of passport! Oops! 4. It is stated that SH KITAP is possible for "indefinite" stay. The 2M cash to stay in Indonesian bank "indefinitely" as well? 5. The agent site linked above also mention that the 3 Juta fee is only for SH VITAS while it is estimated another 12 Juta for for the SH KITAS (5 year?). This in addition to any agent fees of course. Oops! Usually I just visit imigrasi and ask for a list of all the things needed including forms and standard letter templates (tend to change quite often). For this second home visa I'm not sure they have it all sorted out yet.

Markit

Requirements for the Second Home (SH) VITAS part seems to be covered by https://molina.imigrasi.go.id It is stated "Proof of Fund in the form of an account owned by a foreigner or Guarantor with a value of at least IDR 2,000,000,000.00 (two billion rupiah) or equivalent". 1. There is no mention of who can act as "Guarantor". This is probably an opportunity for agents to make a mint. 2. There is no mention of the "luxury property". So it appears that cash or guarantee is required for the SH VITAS. Regarding the SH KITAS part: covered by the latest "circular" from imigrasi, I found an english version here: https://www.letsmoveindonesia.com/the-second-home-visa-kitas/ After a cursory review a few things popped up: 1. There is no clear definition of purpose/responsibilities for a "Guarantor" required for the SH KITAS part. 2. Property is defined as "land and buildings owned by foreigner in accordance to laws and regulations". What type of "ownership" will be accepted as foreigners (persons) cannot own land here? Some other agents mentioned that Hak Pakai? is required. 3. It is stated that SH KITAS is limited to validity of passport! Oops! 4. It is stated that SH KITAP is possible for "indefinite" stay. The 2M cash to stay in Indonesian bank "indefinitely" as well? 5. The agent site linked above also mention that the 3 Juta fee is only for SH VITAS while it is estimated another 12 Juta for for the SH KITAS (5 year?). This in addition to any agent fees of course. Oops! Usually I just visit imigrasi and ask for a list of all the things needed including forms and standard letter templates (tend to change quite often). For this second home visa I'm not sure they have it all sorted out yet.

Is this the kind of clarity anyone! would risk their 5 billion build costs or 2 billion static bank account on? Really?

AuroraB

Is this the kind of clarity anyone! would risk their 5 billion build costs or 2 billion static bank account on? Really?

According to imigrasi press release from 21 December they stated "Indonesian Minister of Law and Human Rights Yasonna H Laoly officially implemented the Second Home Visa policy in Indonesia. The inauguration of the policy targeting global investors and billionaires". I'm not sure what currency "billionaires" refers to. In any case it appears the target group is people with a huge slush fund available -- who would not bother knowing the fine print or what happen to the 2 M deposit. Dream customer for Imigrasi, agents and the likes. People who are actually budgeting expenses will need a far bit more clarity and are probably best advised to take a deep breath. https://www.imigrasi.go.id/id/2022/12/21/siaran-pers-menkumham-ri-resmikan-pemberlakuan-kebijakan-second-home-visa-this-is-indonesia-this-is-your-second-home-welcome-to-indonesia/

Metter

Is this the kind of clarity anyone! would risk their 5 billion build costs or 2 billion static bank account on? Reall

According to imigrasi press release from 21 December they stated "Indonesian Minister of Law and Human Rights Yasonna H Laoly officially implemented the Second Home Visa policy in Indonesia. The inauguration of the policy targeting global investors and billionaires". I'm not sure what currency "billionaires" refers to. In any case it appears the target group is people with a huge slush fund available -- who would not bother knowing the fine print or what happen to the 2 M deposit. Dream customer for Imigrasi, agents and the likes. People who are actually budgeting expenses will need a far bit more clarity and are probably best advised to take a deep breath. https://www.imigrasi.go.id/id/2022/12/21/siaran-pers-menkumham-ri-resmikan-pemberlakuan-kebijakan-second-home-visa-this-is-indonesia-this-is-your-second-home-welcome-to-indonesia/

The currency is of course IDR, so you need approximately 200k AUD. I don't see it as sitting idle as Markit suggests as I currently get a good return on my Lestari account and the hope is the money can remain. AuroraB, you are Markit make good points about the need for clarity when having large sums sitting around. If I need to move 200k AUD to say a BNI account then the loss of on interest would be a deal breaker for me. Like most people there will come a time when I need this money to live on. Whilst it would sit outside my superannuation it is still a fair chunk of it.

AuroraB

The currency is of course IDR, so you need approximately 200k AUD. I don't see it as sitting idle as Markit suggests as I currently get a good return on my Lestari account and the hope is the money can remain. AuroraB, you are Markit make good points about the need for clarity when having large sums sitting around. If I need to move 200k AUD to say a BNI account then the loss of on interest would be a deal breaker for me. Like most people there will come a time when I need this money to live on. Whilst it would sit outside my superannuation it is still a fair chunk of it.

BPR Lestari?? Sometimes there is a correlation between risk and reward. https://www.suara.com/partner/content/beritabali/2021/06/18/161636/bpr-di-bali-sebagian-besar-dilikuidasi-karena-fraud Todays state owned banks are a result of Asian financial crisis after 64 banks collapsed at that time. I prefer to spread deposits over a few reputed banks here.

Markit

Metter wrote The currency is of course IDR, so you need approximately 200k AUD. I don't see it as sitting idle as Markit suggests as I currently get a good return on my Lestari account and the hope is the money can remain. AuroraB, you are Markit make good points about the need for clarity when having large sums sitting around. If I need to move 200k AUD to say a BNI account then the loss of on interest would be a deal breaker for me. Like most people there will come a time when I need this money to live on. Whilst it would sit outside my superannuation it is still a fair chunk of it.

Please keep us informed as to how this proceeds. My understanding (I use the term loosely) is that the dosh has to sit in the account always and immi can come and check any time. Since state banks (the only place this deposit may sit) are only giving 3.5 or so interest on the best accounts with an international inflation rate of between 8 and 11% this looks pretty stupid as an "investment" doesn't it?

harryopal

Not sure if the dust has settled on the second home visa initiative but is there any indication as to take up? Has this been wildly successful, moderately successful or a failure in terms of the original aspirations? And how does the application processes compare with other long term visa applications?

tel522

harryopal wrote Not sure if the dust has settled on the second home visa initiative but is there any indication as to take up? Has this been wildly successful, moderately successful or a failure in terms of the original aspirations? And how does the application processes compare with other long term visa applications?

last info I had was from coconuts ,if you believe ,also from another forum , there was 0 applications ,

Markit

tel522 wrote last info I had was from coconuts ,if you believe ,also from another forum , there was 0 applications ,

I read that also about zero applications and then yesterday heard from the leading light in Karangasem's Tourism board that there have been over 2000 applications, mainly from Russians and Ukrainians. So I guess the truth will lie somewhere in between. I tend towards the former as it's the dumbest 'visa' format I've ever heard of.

tel522

God help us a

Markit wrote I read that also about zero applications and then yesterday heard from the leading light in Karangasem's Tourism board that there have been over 2000 applications, mainly from Russians and Ukrainians. So I guess the truth will lie somewhere in between. I tend towards the former as it's the dumbest 'visa' format I've ever heard of.

I have to say there are too many Russian Mafioso on this island , I dont how they can face foreigners ,when their country is killing and maiming women and children and raping the old ,it is beyond me . They have no shame !

AuroraB

God help us a I have to say there are too many Russian Mafioso on this island ,

42% with residence permits are from russia according to imigrasi for 2022 (Ngurah Rai imigrasi only). That explain the strong russki vibe I'm feeling when shopping at Grand Lucky lately. https://bali.antaranews.com/berita/304503/bali-immigration-71001-residence-permits-in-2022

AuroraB

Mark wrote Many of the men here are no doubt avoiding potential military conscription.

and near certain a gruesome death.

Mark

42% with residence permits are from russia according to imigrasi for 2022 (Ngurah Rai imigrasi only). That explain the strong russki vibe I'm feeling when shopping at Grand Lucky lately. https://bali.antaranews.com/berita/304503/bali-immigration-71001-residence-permits-in-2022

Yep, they're everywhere. Based on language I'd reckon roughly 70-80% of foreigners I'd see in the supermarket are Russian. Many of the men here are no doubt avoiding potential military conscription. Not sure how they manage to live (especially the many with two and three kids who presumably have to go to school), but I suppose many play crypto or work illegally. Government seems happy enough to have them and the police see no reason to stop them when they ride motorbikes without helmets and licenses, so whatever...

britoo

Mark wrote Yep, they're everywhere. Based on language I'd reckon roughly 70-80% of foreigners I'd see in the supermarket are Russian. Many of the men here are no doubt avoiding potential military conscription. Not sure how they manage to live (especially the many with two and three kids who presumably have to go to school), but I suppose many play crypto or work illegally. Government seems happy enough to have them and the police see no reason to stop them when they ride motorbikes without helmets and licenses, so whatever...

who knows, maybe when the concentraition gets high enough - Putin will decide to annex the Bukit :) in order to liberate his people and maybe build a holiday home.

Balifrog

Mark wrote Yep, they're everywhere. Based on language I'd reckon roughly 70-80% of foreigners I'd see in the supermarket are Russian. Many of the men here are no doubt avoiding potential military conscription. Not sure how they manage to live (especially the many with two and three kids who presumably have to go to school), but I suppose many play crypto or work illegally. Government seems happy enough to have them and the police see no reason to stop them when they ride motorbikes without helmets and licenses, so whatever...

Several Russian families in the resort where I live. All on monthly rental base. I suppose that this are all well off people, the poor don't have that choice. They keep mainly to themselves, pricipally because they don't speak English. I treat them politely as I would do with any other nationality. They are not responsable for their government's decision. Same as I would treat US citizens, although all the horrors committed in the last 70 years.....

tel522

Balifrog wrote Several Russian families in the resort where I live. All on monthly rental base. I suppose that this are all well off people, the poor don't have that choice. They keep mainly to themselves, pricipally because they don't speak English. I treat them politely as I would do with any other nationality. They are not responsable for their government's decision. Same as I would treat US citizens, although all the horrors committed in the last 70 years.....

I had the displeasure of working in russia on a couple of occasions ,normal russians do not have the money to travel outside ,what we are seeing here is the mafioso ,which there are many , I keep my distance . Normal russians end up in the " meat grinder " not here or thailand enjoying the champagne lifestyle .

Balifrog

tel522 wrote I had the displeasure of working in russia on a couple of occasions ,normal russians do not have the money to travel outside ,what we are seeing here is the mafioso ,which there are many , I keep my distance . Normal russians end up in the " meat grinder " not here or thailand enjoying the champagne lifestyle .

Did a few 2 weeks missions in Moscou several years ago. In construction, means not with the elite.... But saw and learned a few things. Concerning those here, there may some dubious characters among them, but I don't think it is a majority.