new visa rules

cosmos

i have 7 years left on my villa lease and i,m 71, what happens to retirees when this new rule come out on the 24 th of dec, i dint have 200,000 dollars to stick in a bank for i year never mind 10, o what will my status be, i have just renewed my kitas in september, are they going to make me leave after that,m should i get a lawyer.

spicyayam

It seems like no one really knows. What is your agent saying? You would expect to be able to stay on your current visa until the new rules come into effect, The business visa seems like the best back up plan for now.

georgevonbraun

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Mark

You can always fall back on the trusty B211 social visit visa, which many people have used to live in Indonesia for years and even decades.

tel522

Mark wrote You can always fall back on the trusty B211 social visit visa, which many people have used to live in Indonesia for years and even decades.

I read on expat indo there is some discussion about a cooling off period after 6 months on social visa ,normally it was 24 hours they are talking now about 3 weeks ,that would screw up the social visa for many if it becomes law.

AuroraB

cosmos wrote i have 7 years left on my villa lease and i,m 71, what happens to retirees when this new rule come out on the 24 th of dec, i dint have 200,000 dollars to stick in a bank for i year never mind 10, o what will my status be, i have just renewed my kitas in september, are they going to make me leave after that,m should i get a lawyer.

A lawyer? To fight the gov.? Nah. I you already are leasing a villa (not long term rental) -- you are the owner of a villa on leased land. Now you just need to ensure it is classified as a "luxury villa" at value 2 Milyar or more.

Markit

AuroraB wrote I you already are leasing a villa (not long term rental) -- you are the owner of a villa on leased land. Now you just need to ensure it is classified as a "luxury villa" at value 2 Milyar or more.

And how do you get the property classified as "luxury"?

britoo

And how do you get the property classified as "luxury"?

I was interested in knowing this and couldn't find a definiteive answer. It seems for tax purposes the definition is "Under the regulation, effective since June 19, luxury residences are 500-square-meter houses or 150 sq m apartments or condominiums." - https://villasnorthbali.com/indonesia-luxury-tax-property/ But who knows if immigration need to align with the tax office, or if this even correct.

Mark

tel522 wrote I read on expat indo there is some discussion about a cooling off period after 6 months on social visa ,normally it was 24 hours they are talking now about 3 weeks ,that would screw up the social visa for many if it becomes law.

That would make sense, in principle. But the real issue is that people 'living' in Indonesia on these visas become tax resident by staying 183 days in a 12 month period, and have the obligation to pay tax, but would be refused a tax number (npwp) by kantor pajak if they asked. Very messed up system, so I'm not sure what they would accomplish with a three week 'cooling off' period.

YachtRock

Well good news to all the retirement KITAS people on here. I just heard from a visa agent that those on retirement KITAS will not need to convert to the 2nd home visa to stay in Bali.

cosmos

Well i hope you are right, i will be contacting my agent after xmas, so good luck to everyone in the same predicament, and merry xmas to all on the forum and may the new tear bring us good news.xxx

AuroraB

The circular letter from immigration only refers to "[B]Proof of ownership of property in Indonesia with luxury category[/B]". So I thought maybe (luxury) property valued 2M (Milyar) or more could be accepted. I spotted one agent referring to "[I]A luxury property is mostly referring to large villas, condominiums, and townhouses (at least 300 m2) that cost at least 6x more than the “regular” housing in the area.[/I]" [From Regulation of the Minister of Public Housing of the Republic of Indonesia No. 7 of 2013]. Here is no mention of property value. The agent is Emerhub. So in summary it is not required locking up 2M funds in Indonesia as the alternative is to use a guarantor (agent) a few weeks for the 2M funds required for VISA while ITAS can be obtained as owner of a "luxury property". In any case best to await the detailed regulation. ===================================== [I]CIRCULAR LETTER NUMBER IMI-0740.GR.01.01 YEAR 2022 CHAPTER II SECOND HOME VISA 1.b. Proof of Fund in the form of an account owned by a foreigner [B]or guarantor[/B] with a value of at least Rp.2,000,000,000.00 (two billion rupiah) or equivalent; CHAPTER IV SECOND HOME ITAS 4 b) A statement of commitment stating that the foreigner applying for a Second Home ITAS for 5 (five) years has Proof of Funds in the form of: i) Account belonging to the foreigner concerned at a State-Owned Bank with a value of at least Rp. 2,000,000,000.00 (two billion rupiah), or ii) [B]Proof of ownership of property in Indonesia with luxury category[/B] in the name of a foreigner in accordance with the legislation in the land/agrarian sector,[/I]

britoo

AuroraB wrote A lawyer? To fight the gov.? Nah. I you already are leasing a villa (not long term rental) -- you are the owner of a villa on leased land. Now you just need to ensure it is classified as a "luxury villa" at value 2 Milyar or more.

"prrof of ownership in the name of the foreigner" can only really mean HGB or more likely HP. HS will not see ownership transferred into the owners name so I dont think it counts - might be wrong. With 7 years left, you'd have to have acquired it 73 years ago (80 year HP, HGB, though things changed around 2017, up from 70 I think) for it to expire in 7 years hence I guess this is a HS agreement that is likeley not eligible. Worth checking though That said, I am not a lawyer anywhere let alone here, so this is just my reasoning and likely not even worth 10c.

Markit

If I was new to retiring and was thinking of selling up where I lived (Oz, USA, Eu, etc) to come to Bali, I'd rock up here with a wadge of cash, buy a nice villa (2nd Home) for my 5 billion for 80 years (hak pakai), spend my 10 years Second Home Visa or 20 (renewal anyone?) living the Bali dream then sell my villa with appreciation (and 60 years still on the clock) and FO back home having saved the $20k for visas and visa runs!

AuroraB

britoo wrote "prrof of ownership in the name of the foreigner" can only really mean HGB or more likely HP. HS will not see ownership transferred into the owners name so I dont think it counts - might be wrong. With 7 years left, you'd have to have acquired it 73 years ago (80 year HP, HGB, though things changed around 2017, up from 70 I think) for it to expire in 7 years hence I guess this is a HS agreement that is likeley not eligible. Worth checking though That said, I am not a lawyer anywhere let alone here, so this is just my reasoning and likely not even worth 10c.

I rented a villa long term owned by a foreigner on leased land. I reviewed the ownership documents as part of my due diligence and it was clear the foreigner had a valid Hak Sewa (HS) transferred into the foreigners name. The same foreigner later sold the villa and the remaining land lease to another foreigner. I would be surprised if HS is not accepted for second home KITAS as that seems to be the most common ownership.