Local contacts or distant relatives

Ginand T

I'm in South Aus and planning to travel back shortly. Looking for pointers on, and pitfalls while tossing around the question of buying established or land and new build option. My girlfriend is Balinese with family in Gianyar, eldest brother a professional in law enforcement and involved in the local Banjar also. Am a community minded type and look to do the right thing both financially and hands on. Also a tradie with building experience, near retirement. So here's the question, reside somewhere near the family, or on the other side of the island. Caveat, only plan on being there half of the year with my girlfriend likely to stay in Bali.

spicyayam

Well I think you can imagine the potential pitfalls. Unless you are getting married, then I wouldn't think about it. Or look into a long term lease. Many villas available now cheap and better than building yourself. I would think about where you want to be based rather than living close to the family.

Markit

I hear wedding bells (chains clinking? ). Moving far from the family only means you will have to drive further. It won't limit the frequency of your visits any.

JackStraw

Ginand T wrote I'm in South Aus and planning to travel back shortly. Looking for pointers on, and pitfalls while tossing around the question of buying established or land and new build option. My girlfriend is Balinese with family in Gianyar, eldest brother a professional in law enforcement and involved in the local Banjar also. Am a community minded type and look to do the right thing both financially and hands on. Also a tradie with building experience, near retirement. So here's the question, reside somewhere near the family, or on the other side of the island. Caveat, only plan on being there half of the year with my girlfriend likely to stay in Bali.

I see what you mean about the benefits of living far from family but if her eldest brother is in the police and heavily involved in local banjar, that could really benefit you in the long run. Especially if you stay on good terms with him. If you're on a retirement visa, I really don't see the benefit of buying landing and building a home. If you can find something halfway decent in the area you want to live just rent and renovate to your liking. Much more cheaper and will save you loads of headaches in the long run. If your future wife has free land, however, then sure, why not build a simple house? Just keep her out of the design process :)

Ginand T

JackStraw wrote I see what you mean about the benefits of living far from family but if her eldest brother is in the police and heavily involved in local banjar, that could really benefit you in the long run. Especially if you stay on good terms with him. If you're on a retirement visa, I really don't see the benefit of buying landing and building a home. If you can find something halfway decent in the area you want to live just rent and renovate to your liking. Much more cheaper and will save you loads of headaches in the long run. If your future wife has free land, however, then sure, why not build a simple house? Just keep her out of the design process :)

Thanks Jack Free land? how do I determine that. I find it hard to get a straight answer about who owns what and welcome advice as to determining that answer. I cautiously accept the precept that (she might) I wont ever "own" anything in bali or Java but thats an aside after Ive passed on. What matters most to me is quality of (our) life while in Bali and portability while retaining property/investments in Aus. Im 60 am told Business visa 5m idr, short term, maybe retirement visa a better option.

Tezza71

Ginand T wrote Thanks Jack Free land? how do I determine that. I find it hard to get a straight answer about who owns what and welcome advice as to determining that answer. I cautiously accept the precept that (she might) I wont ever "own" anything in bali or Java but thats an aside after Ive passed on. What matters most to me is quality of (our) life while in Bali and portability while retaining property/investments in Aus. Im 60 am told Business visa 5m idr, short term, maybe retirement visa a better option.

Beware the Australian pension trap. It kicks in at 67 now and you need to be in Australia, I think it's for 2 years prior to getting it. I took the retirement visa but I'm 74 and was living in Australia when I did it.

britoo

Ginand T wrote Thanks Jack Free land? how do I determine that. I find it hard to get a straight answer about who owns what and welcome advice as to determining that answer. I cautiously accept the precept that (she might) I wont ever "own" anything in bali or Java but thats an aside after Ive passed on. What matters most to me is quality of (our) life while in Bali and portability while retaining property/investments in Aus. Im 60 am told Business visa 5m idr, short term, maybe retirement visa a better option.

Please take the following to be information provided by an interested amateur and fact-check to avoid disappointment. Whilst you can never legally own freehold in your name it is my understanding that a retirement visa will allow you to hold a single residential property/plot in your own name under the Hak Pakai title. This is a kind of conditional ownership ( transacted as a propery title sale) with a fixed tenor of 80 years (in total) during which time the freehold is surrendered by the seller to the goverment. Most importantly you can sell it on to an eligible freeholder at any point during the contract. Issues are if you surrender your visa you forfeit this the right to hold HP. You are then supposed to dispose of the property within a year and at least in theory the goverment could refuse your renewal at the 30 and 50 year points (perhaps not a the biggest issue for you,, pardon me for saying). What I do not know, is in reality, how liquid the HP title is ie will a potential buyer seek to stiff you knowing HP has an expiry date. A further advantage of the retirement visa, that is not so useful at this moment, is that you can come and go as you please by which I mean its a muti-entry visa. I assume by buisness visa you mean the B211B business stream visa which is a single entry 6 month stay ie if you step foot out of Indonesia at any point it will expire For info, the base cost of a B211 visa is approx 70US ie (1 milIDR) for the visa and about 35US (500kIDR)per monthly extension from the second month onwards. In addition to the 5mil the agent will charge you (check if the immigration cost is included or extra) youll pay about 1mil per month for each extension from the end of the first month so budget 10mil per half year total. With a local partner you certainly have the option to have her sponsor you (no agent) for a social visa B211 (for sure can do onshore and probably even offshore) though, whilst its not difficult, its absolutely not sensible or cost effective for everyone. Hopw this helps.

harryopal

Wherever you decide on. a serious consideration might be traffic flow and how much you need to get around. While things have eased now if and when tourism returns there are areas of terrible traffic jams.

JackStraw

Ginand T wrote Thanks Jack Free land? how do I determine that. I find it hard to get a straight answer about who owns what and welcome advice as to determining that answer. I cautiously accept the precept that (she might) I wont ever "own" anything in bali or Java but thats an aside after Ive passed on. What matters most to me is quality of (our) life while in Bali and portability while retaining property/investments in Aus. Im 60 am told Business visa 5m idr, short term, maybe retirement visa a better option.

What I mean by free land is that sometimes, family relatives are gifted land from deceased or elder relatives. It happened to my gf who has a land title with her name on it in Seseh. We are not building on it but she will keep it for her investment. Of course, as a bule, I would never build a house with my own money on land that belongs under someone else's name but plenty of bule have done it before. It's just not for me. If you want to get a straight answer about who owns what, you need to enlist the services of a PPAT. Get a copy of the Hak Milik of the land in question and the PPAT will be able to determine who the real owner is at the land office of whatever regency that land is in.

Ginand T

JackStraw wrote What I mean by free land is that sometimes, family relatives are gifted land from deceased or elder relatives. It happened to my gf who has a land title with her name on it in Seseh. We are not building on it but she will keep it for her investment. Of course, as a bule, I would never build a house with my own money on land that belongs under someone else's name but plenty of bule have done it before. It's just not for me. If you want to get a straight answer about who owns what, you need to enlist the services of a PPAT. Get a copy of the Hak Milik of the land in question and the PPAT will be able to determine who the real owner is at the land office of whatever regency that land is in.

Thanks Jack, Lucky girlfriend. Is it uncommon for a woman to me left land/property. Im still unsure about family structures or heirarchy in their culture, get the feeling its male oriented.

Tezza71

JackStraw wrote What I mean by free land is that sometimes, family relatives are gifted land from deceased or elder relatives. It happened to my gf who has a land title with her name on it in Seseh. We are not building on it but she will keep it for her investment. Of course, as a bule, I would never build a house with my own money on land that belongs under someone else's name but plenty of bule have done it before. It's just not for me. If you want to get a straight answer about who owns what, you need to enlist the services of a PPAT. Get a copy of the Hak Milik of the land in question and the PPAT will be able to determine who the real owner is at the land office of whatever regency that land is in.

G;day Jack, relative new boy to Bali. Can you enlighten me as to what a PPAT is and where to obtain a copy of the Hak Milik for land. Got a family friend who is an architect and thinking of building but need to get all my ducks in a row. I'm sure I will have more questions as time goes by so apologies for pestering you up front.

JackStraw

Ginand T wrote Thanks Jack, Lucky girlfriend. Is it uncommon for a woman to me left land/property. Im still unsure about family structures or heirarchy in their culture, get the feeling its male oriented.

Typically you are right in that land or other assets would go to the men of the family but apparently, her family is unique and her brothers live overseas so she is getting the land. Very odd indeed but we're not complaining :)

JackStraw

Tezza71 wrote Thanks Jack. I'll keep that offer in mind. I'm a little hesitant to go ahead and build but my thought is that at least I'll get what I want and not have the hassle of getting renovations/modifications done.

Hassle of getting renovations and modifications done are much easier than the hassle of building your own house. You can't escape the hassle either way mate haha

Tezza71

JackStraw wrote Hassle of getting renovations and modifications done are much easier than the hassle of building your own house. You can't escape the hassle either way mate haha

Yeah I guess not. The one advantage with building here is that I am retired so I can go look every day if I'm so inclined to see how it's progressing and keep an eye on the guys doing the job.

Ginand T

JackStraw wrote Hassle of getting renovations and modifications done are much easier than the hassle of building your own house. You can't escape the hassle either way mate haha

Talking of renovation or building. Is location down to personal choice. I ask because my girlfriends brother is in the local Banjar in Bedulu. Does this mean Im better off to purchase in that area. I prefer Candi dasa / east coast. A good business idea might be to locate centrally according to the location of a majority of members on here and simply build a pub. Ive got a lot of old corro out the back...

PERtoDPS

Ginand T wrote Good advice re hardware. Are you centrally located, what motivated choice of location.

I am in Sanur, I choose Sanur because it has a nice balance of expat and Indonesian life, many eateries to choose from we have big medium and small supermarkets. Lots of longer term expats and also passers through and not the crazy busy traffic and all that like Canngu. While I love the freshness of the village, it's too boring for a city boy like me. I'm too engrained in consumer culture. Perfect for me, as it's not the "in" area, rents are great price and my Indonesian Mrs can negotiate great deals too.

Mark

Tezza71 wrote Yeah I guess not. The one advantage with building here is that I am retired so I can go look every day if I'm so inclined to see how it's progressing and keep an eye on the guys doing the job.

Visiting the project regularly is a [B]MUST[/B] if you want it to meet your expectations in terms of cost, quality and time. Even then, it's still a bit of a crap shoot but at least if you're onsite frequently and engaged with the teams you can deal with small issues before they become big issues.

Tezza71

Mark wrote Visiting the project regularly is a [B]MUST[/B] if you want it to meet your expectations in terms of cost, quality and time. Even then, it's still a bit of a crap shoot but at least if you're onsite frequently and engaged with the teams you can deal with small issues before they become big issues.

The guy that designed the place for us is a close friend of my lady tells me he will be personally managing the project but I will definitely be going to the site as often as I can.

JackStraw

Tezza71 wrote G;day Jack, relative new boy to Bali. Can you enlighten me as to what a PPAT is and where to obtain a copy of the Hak Milik for land. Got a family friend who is an architect and thinking of building but need to get all my ducks in a row. I'm sure I will have more questions as time goes by so apologies for pestering you up front.

No worries at all. PPAT means Pejabat Pembuat Akta Tanah or essentially, an office that makes land deeds. There are many shady notaries at these PPAT offices so make sure you research and find a good one that won't scam you and abides by all the laws. People will tell you "Bali is the wild west and no one actually follows the laws" but don't listen to them. Just play by the rules and you'll save yourself lots of potential headaches in the future. Every land owner has Hak Milik. Only the owner should have access to the real document. The national land office (BPN) in your regency should have a copy of it. Feel free to DM me with any other questions you may have and I'd be happy to help

Tezza71

JackStraw wrote No worries at all. PPAT means Pejabat Pembuat Akta Tanah or essentially, an office that makes land deeds. There are many shady notaries at these PPAT offices so make sure you research and find a good one that won't scam you and abides by all the laws. People will tell you "Bali is the wild west and no one actually follows the laws" but don't listen to them. Just play by the rules and you'll save yourself lots of potential headaches in the future. Every land owner has Hak Milik. Only the owner should have access to the real document. The national land office (BPN) in your regency should have a copy of it. Feel free to DM me with any other questions you may have and I'd be happy to help

Thanks Jack. I'll keep that offer in mind. I'm a little hesitant to go ahead and build but my thought is that at least I'll get what I want and not have the hassle of getting renovations/modifications done.