Selling Up, now what?

Markit

What is the process for selling a property here in Indonesia/Bali? First get a buyer... Then find an agreeable price.... Find a worthy (not outrageously expensive) notary or estate lawyer.... Transferal of funds to the owner's (nominee) account.... Transfer of funds to the "real" owner's account... (money laundering considerations/issues?) Payment of all outstanding commissions/charges/taxes.... Please be kind.

JackStraw

Markit wrote What is the process for selling a property here in Indonesia/Bali? First get a buyer... Then find an agreeable price.... Find a worthy (not outrageously expensive) notary or estate lawyer.... Transferal of funds to the owner's (nominee) account.... Transfer of funds to the "real" owner's account... (money laundering considerations/issues?) Payment of all outstanding commissions/charges/taxes.... Please be kind.

Where you going?

PERtoDPS

Not to mention in this market there is empty rentals sitting every 500 M in the city, do you have or think you'll get a buyer? Side note, may or may not be of any entertainment value to you, but you're the last person I expect to sell up and go. Somewhere else on Bali? Don't wanna share? in any case, wish you the best with it, but if you want max return consider your timing to sell

JackStraw

mugwump wrote The old American adage about "location, location" is no different here. Even now with a recession in Bali it all depends upon the demand in a particular location.

Exactly my point. The location my house is in now is much sought after. Maybe not as much as Canggu but demand in this area should be high and the housing supply is quite low. Hence, my house should at least have people visiting it on a weekly basis but there's no one. Thats why my logic comes from. Real estate market is fucked right now.

Mark

Markit wrote What is the process for selling a property here in Indonesia/Bali? First get a buyer... Then find an agreeable price.... Find a worthy (not outrageously expensive) notary or estate lawyer.... Transferal of funds to the owner's (nominee) account.... Transfer of funds to the "real" owner's account... (money laundering considerations/issues?) Payment of all outstanding commissions/charges/taxes.... Please be kind.

My quick thoughts are as follows: You'll definitely need a good notaris (though the buyer may wish to use their own), but even before that point I'd suggest getting all the property documentation in order, eg land certificates, IMB, access road rights, pondok wisata (if applicable), receipts proving payment of property taxes, building drawings, balance sheet and income statement if being run as a rental property etc. Putting this information together in a tidy fashion will speed up due diligence for the buyer and make the seller look more credible. This should also benefit the seller in price negotiations. Regarding the transaction itself, these days both buyer and seller need to submit their NPWP (tax numbers). The notaris handles the transfer of funds between the parties, paying all taxes due and of course taking his/her fee. Tax on the sale amount (2.5% for the seller and 5% for the buyer) is a final tax, so nothing else to pay but the notaris (usually paid by the buyer). If the land is held in a nominee arrangement, the transaction could be a bit more tricky and the need for a good notaris to correctly convey title from the nominee to the buyer and transfer funds from the buyer to the beneficial seller is even more critical. In this case, get a credible notaris known for fair dealing and suggest to the buyer that it's a good idea to use them.

Markit

JackStraw wrote Where you going?

Nowhere. Gonna prob die here with a ice cold bintang in my ice cold hand...

JackStraw

Markit wrote Nowhere. Gonna prob die here with a ice cold bintang in my ice cold hand...

you can afford [I]cold[/I] bintangs? Well, damn, quit bragging Mr. High Society ;)

sakumabali

Markit wrote What is the process for selling a property here in Indonesia/Bali? First get a buyer... Then find an agreeable price.... Find a worthy (not outrageously expensive) notary or estate lawyer.... Transferal of funds to the owner's (nominee) account.... Transfer of funds to the "real" owner's account... (money laundering considerations/issues?) Payment of all outstanding commissions/charges/taxes.... Please be kind.

I did several buy & sell On Bali. Never has been the whole amount transferred to the nominee account. There's a lot of distrust during these transactions. Even balinese family members want to have split (sometimes 4 or 5) transfers...so you could easily - after crunching the numbers - have your cash directly send to your account

JackStraw

PERtoDPS wrote Not to mention in this market there is empty rentals sitting every 500 M in the city, do you have or think you'll get a buyer? Side note, may or may not be of any entertainment value to you, but you're the last person I expect to sell up and go. Somewhere else on Bali? Don't wanna share? in any case, wish you the best with it, but if you want max return consider your timing to sell

If it was land he was selling I would disagree with you. Land is selling like hotcakes right now but as for selling a home, it's pretty rough at the moment. Let me give an example. I live in Jimbaran at the moment. Not in anything crazy but a nice house that would appeal to both foreigners and locals. the location is super primo though. Anyways, I've lived there 1 year under a rental agreement stating that if the owner finds a buyer for the house which has been continuously on the market, then I would need to vacate the home and get a refund on the rest of the contract in which I did not live there. So do you care to guess how many offers we've had on the house in the past year? What about how many people even coming just to look at the place? ZERO. Again, this is a modest size home that appeals to both rich Jakarta people and also Bule in an amazing location. No one's even called the agent.

mugwump

JackStraw wrote If it was land he was selling I would disagree with you. Land is selling like hotcakes right now but as for selling a home, it's pretty rough at the moment. Let me give an example. I live in Jimbaran at the moment. Not in anything crazy but a nice house that would appeal to both foreigners and locals. the location is super primo though. Anyways, I've lived there 1 year under a rental agreement stating that if the owner finds a buyer for the house which has been continuously on the market, then I would need to vacate the home and get a refund on the rest of the contract in which I did not live there. So do you care to guess how many offers we've had on the house in the past year? What about how many people even coming just to look at the place? ZERO. Again, this is a modest size home that appeals to both rich Jakarta people and also Bule in an amazing location. No one's even called the agent.

The old American adage about "location, location" is no different here. Even now with a recession in Bali it all depends upon the demand in a particular location.

Markit

If anyone cares to look or share with friends ( ;) 5% commission) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n9uzNz7m5wuJOGSe4tGQTI4jdbCksW1u/view?usp=sharing

harryopal

My WNI wife occasionally has friends looking for a villa. What is a ballpark figure for starting negotiation and the area?

JackStraw

Markit wrote Strangely we've had lots of interest just recently from Javanese and Singaporeans, hearsay is that the Ozzies are chomping at the bit too along with foreigners from Europe and the Americas. Story line is that the lockdown has scared the shit out of many who thought they'd always be able to feck off in dire times to somewhere else easily. And Bali has had (comparatively) a good pandemic with few dead and not too serious of a quarantine/lockdown. No one thinks this is the last pandemic either...

That is quite shocking indeed. Happy to hear it though!

harryopal

JackStraw wrote If it was land he was selling I would disagree with you. Land is selling like hotcakes right now but as for selling a home, it's pretty rough at the moment. Let me give an example. I live in Jimbaran at the moment. Not in anything crazy but a nice house that would appeal to both foreigners and locals. the location is super primo though. Anyways, I've lived there 1 year under a rental agreement stating that if the owner finds a buyer for the house which has been continuously on the market, then I would need to vacate the home and get a refund on the rest of the contract in which I did not live there. So do you care to guess how many offers we've had on the house in the past year? What about how many people even coming just to look at the place? ZERO. Again, this is a modest size home that appeals to both rich Jakarta people and also Bule in an amazing location. No one's even called the agent.

Afternoon JackStraw. Please see my PM.

Markit

harryopal wrote My WNI wife occasionally has friends looking for a villa. What is a ballpark figure for starting negotiation and the area?

It's a bit more complicated (surprise, surprise) as there are 2 and 1/2 villas sitting on 2000 sq.meters of freehold land on 2 certificates all OR either for sale. Tell them to contact the "seller" listed on the pdf file for the rest. Thanks!

tel522

JackStraw wrote Exactly my point. The location my house is in now is much sought after. Maybe not as much as Canggu but demand in this area should be high and the housing supply is quite low. Hence, my house should at least have people visiting it on a weekly basis but there's no one. Thats why my logic comes from. Real estate market is fucked right now.

Not forgetting a good % are junk construction , Markits castle looks good though , but he was involved in the construction , for the majority buying monster problems imho , scary ! There are rich folks in this country whom dont seem scared to spend 30 billion up , as long as its on a cliff in a fashionable area ,.Its all about status for their "well heeled" chums . Major constant maintenance does not scare them , even if they only visit the place once a year .

JackStraw

tel522 wrote Not forgetting a good % are junk construction , Markits castle looks good though , but he was involved in the construction , for the majority buying monster problems imho , scary ! There are rich folks in this country whom dont seem scared to spend 30 billion up , as long as its on a cliff in a fashionable area ,.Its all about status for their "well heeled" chums . Major constant maintenance does not scare them , even if they only visit the place once a year .

I know someone who is spending an ungodly amount of money for land on the cliff by Uluwatu (freehold). They are spending so much money on the land they can only afford to throw up some piece of shit cookie-cutter villa that will require maintenance after every rainy season I'm sure. With the total money spent, they could build an extremely nice, high-quality villa in Bali without a view and then still have money left over to take weekend trips to a hotel with an ocean view to satisfy their "vitamin sea" addiction. I'll never understand the logic of some people on this island.

Markit

Mark wrote My quick thoughts are as follows: You'll definitely need a good notaris (though the buyer may wish to use their own), but even before that point I'd suggest getting all the property documentation in order, eg land certificates, IMB, access road rights, pondok wisata (if applicable), receipts proving payment of property taxes, building drawings, balance sheet and income statement if being run as a rental property etc. [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]CHECK[/COLOR] Putting this information together in a tidy fashion will speed up due diligence for the buyer and make the seller look more credible. This should also benefit the seller in price negotiations. [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]CHECK[/COLOR] Regarding the transaction itself, these days both buyer and seller need to submit their NPWP (tax numbers). [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]What if the buyer is foreign? Or if local or foreign and buying leasehold?[/COLOR] The notaris handles the transfer of funds between the parties, paying all taxes due and of course taking his/her fee. [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]Fee is always negotiable! Are taxes still based on the (fictional) sale price?[/COLOR] Tax on the sale amount (2.5% for the seller and 5% for the buyer) is a final tax, so nothing else to pay but the notaris (usually paid by the buyer). [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]I wasn't aware of that! Thanks. Again taxes based on the (fictional) sale price?[/COLOR] If the land is held in a nominee arrangement, the transaction could be a bit more tricky and the need for a good notaris to correctly convey title from the nominee to the buyer and transfer funds from the buyer to the beneficial seller is even more critical. [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]Excellent point and luckily I still trust my nominee completely - ask me again after the sale :oops:[/COLOR] In this case, get a credible notaris known for fair dealing and suggest to the buyer that it's a good idea to use them. [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]Any tips on how to influence a buyer to use your choice of notaris? I'm not so sure I would, if I was the buyer...[/COLOR]

Any tips on bank difficulties with large amounts being transferred into my account what with money-laundering concerns from the bank?? Cheer, I owe you a beer or 3!

sakumabali

Mark wroteHowever, in some parts of Indonesia the NJOP is occasionally higher than current transacted prices

I remember one time I wanted to be super smart and insisted on NJOP. Didn't even check the offer from the notary. Well she smiled (not a nice smile) and said "Ok if you wish". I had to pay much more ;)

cheynewalk

So how does a person married/getting married to an indonesian guarantee their continued use of the house? Can the house be put in the indonesian spouses name and immediately be leased back to the bule partner at peppercorn rent for say 25 years? In this scenario the bule is protected by the lease agreement in the event his indonesian partner passes away and the local family cannot get their hands on the property.