Covid-19 Vaccine performs better than expected

mugwump

How can we possibly evaluate a vaccine from the secretive nation of China?

harryopal

mugwump wrote How can we possibly evaluate a vaccine from the secretive nation of China?

The nature of Communist states is to report only what shows the country in a good light and hide or downplay negatives. And as for testing the effectiveness, where their vaccines are to be used in countries such as Indonesia, there is no reliable method of analysis, testing or data and unlikely to be. It will come down to the raw public perception as to whether or not the number of Covid cases seem to lessen over a period of time. If you are waiting on reliable data before you decide to vaccinate it could be a rather long wait. [ATTACH type="full" alt="3399"]3399[/ATTACH]

Mark

It's reported that the Pfizer vaccine has some nasty side effects, especially after the second dose. More importantly, none of the vaccines can claim to confer immunity for more than six months, due in part to the rushed vaccine development and limited clinical trials.To me this whole charade has the hallmark of a major debacle in the making. I'll take my chances and wait at least a year or so for the dust to settle before I even consider a vaccination.

harryopal

Mark wrote It's reported that the Pfizer vaccine has some nasty side effects, especially after the second dose. More importantly, none of the vaccines can claim to confer immunity for more than six months, due in part to the rushed vaccine development and limited clinical trials.To me this whole charade has the hallmark of a major debacle in the making. I'll take my chances and wait at least a year or so for the dust to settle before I even consider a vaccination.

Interested to see the report.

harryopal

Just saw the story reported on Singapore TV midday news. The gist of it is that several people in the UK with allergies have had adverse reactions and people with allergies are warned there may be problems in being vaccinated

Mark

harryopal wrote Interested to see the report.

It seems that a couple people in the UK experienced severe allergic reactions after the jab, requiring urgent medical intervention. The nasty side effects I was referring to are less life threatening...https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/08/pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccine-side-effects-trials.html

spicyayam

Australia's vaccines are having trouble to: https://www.ibtimes.com/australian-covid-vaccine-dropped-over-false-positive-hiv-result-3099762

harryopal

I posted this on the Expat Forum and now wait for bricks to start flying my way. Clearly the issue of mass Covid 19 vaccination programs is one that carries a lot of heat. To be an anti vaccinator is akin to being seen as a flat earther. That said I see that 51% of citizens in the US do not want to be vaccinated. As one who experienced a bad small pox vaccination I confess to not being keen on vaccination programs. Here is a sober link to disquieting information about the charge forward to mass vaccinations. It also questions the spraying programs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjcAUTDaTjc

harryopal

After the great vaccine revolution, as in Stalin's time, I will await the knock on the door for holding incorrect views and doubtless will be sent off to the camps along with the many other heretics stupid enough not to accept the prevailing wisdoms.

JackStraw

SquarePeg wrote It kills 0.2% - 0.3% of those who catch it. So, if you get it, that can be very bad no question, but about 2 or 3 in 1,000 will die from it (or with it).

And 72 out of 1,000 (7.2%) die from riding a motorbike. Something I do every single day so I think I'll take my chances with the 0.2% super flu thank you very much.

mugwump

<QUOTE author="harryopal"><s>[quote=harryopal]</s> I posted this on the Expat Forum and now wait for bricks to start flying my way. Clearly the issue of mass Covid 19 vaccination programs is one that carries a lot of heat. To be an anti vaccinator is akin to being seen as a flat earther. That said I see that 51% of citizens in the US do not want to be vaccinated. As one who experienced a bad small pox vaccination I confess to not being keen on vaccination programs. Here is a sober link to disquieting information about the charge forward to mass vaccinations. It also questions the spraying programs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjcAUTDaTjc <e>[/quote]</e></QUOTE> Please realize that what is now the U.S. was founded initially largely by religious sects, and there are still many around, albeit in more conventional form. Realize also just how many voted for Trump. Beyond the old Hollywood projection of the typical rational guy next door are a hell of a lot of whackos! My dear departed mother’s long ancestry were Mennonites, (and neglect the rash comments concerning yours truly!).

Mark

<QUOTE author="harryopal"><s>[quote=harryopal]</s> I posted this on the Expat Forum and now wait for bricks to start flying my way. Clearly the issue of mass Covid 19 vaccination programs is one that carries a lot of heat. To be an anti vaccinator is akin to being seen as a flat earther. That said I see that 51% of citizens in the US do not want to be vaccinated. As one who experienced a bad small pox vaccination I confess to not being keen on vaccination programs. Here is a sober link to disquieting information about the charge forward to mass vaccinations. It also questions the spraying programs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjcAUTDaTjc <e>[/quote]</e></QUOTE> I think there's a big difference between being an 'anti-vaxer' and having doubts about the rushed development of the Covid vaccines. I have had the full complement of vaccinations recommended for persons living in Indonesia, eg hepatitis, tetanus, rabies, typhoid etc. I've also had annual flu jabs as well as the pneumonia vaccine. However, I have no interest in being a guinea pig for an under-studied vaccine developed in record time for a disease that science doesn't yet fully understand, and which has been approved without the usual extensive clinical trials. So, at this point, until the disease is better understood and both the efficacy and safety of the various vaccines is proven in a wide cross section of populations around the world over time, I'm sitting this one out. And I'm pretty sure I won't be alone...

Markit

I'm so tired of the endless vaccine discussions! Let's make it really simple: If the people next door had a virus that might kill your wife and children would you give them the vaccine that would probably save their lives? If "No" then are you prepared to look at yourself in the mirror if they die [U][I]for the rest of your days[/I][/U]? If "Yes" job done.

JackStraw

Incredibly intelligent comment here. Don't mix the "anti-vaxxers" in with the "safe vaxxers." I'm all for a vaccine if it's proven to have no negative repercussions at all but I do not believe the rushed version of the vaccine has such qualities. I will certainly wait it out to see what happens and if I'm confident they can deliver something with no adverse side effects I'm in. This is different than the flu vaccine which merely introduces the strain into your system to elicit a response. The covid vaccine changes the essence of your DNA and that is a little worrisome for me.

Mark wrote I think there's a big difference between being an 'anti-vaxer' and having doubts about the rushed development of the Covid vaccines. I have had the full complement of vaccinations recommended for persons living in Indonesia, eg hepatitis, tetanus, rabies, typhoid etc. I've also had annual flu jabs as well as the pneumonia vaccine. However, I have no interest in being a guinea pig for an under-studied vaccine developed in record time for a disease that science doesn't yet fully understand, and which has been approved without the usual extensive clinical trials. So, at this point, until the disease is better understood and both the efficacy and safety of the various vaccines is proven in a wide cross section of populations around the world over time, I'm sitting this one out. And I'm pretty sure I won't be alone...

matsaleh

....This is different than the flu vaccine which merely introduces the strain into your system to elicit a response. The covid vaccine changes the essence of your DNA and that is a little worrisome for me.

"The BBC asked three independent scientists about this. They said that the coronavirus vaccine would not alter human DNA. Some of the newly created vaccines, including the one now approved in the UK developed by Pfizer/BioNTech, use a fragment of the virus's genetic material - or messenger RNA. "Injecting RNA into a person doesn't do anything to the DNA of a human cell," says Prof Jeffrey Almond of Oxford University. It works by giving the body instructions to produce a protein which is present on the surface of the coronavirus. The immune system then learns to recognise and produce antibodies against the protein." BBC - Vaccine rumours debunked

Mark

Here's an explanation of mRNA vaccines (like the covid vaccines) from the University of Cambridge in the UK. https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines. It was published in 2018, so there has been no politicizing of the content to suit government policy. It seems that the technology is quite exciting and potentially game changing. However, a couple of key takeaways from this report are that "there is still a lot of work to be done before mRNA vaccines can become standard treatments, in the meantime, we need a better understanding of their potential side effects, and more evidence of their long term efficacy" and "safety: better understanding of vaccine adverse effects is needed – these can include inflammation or autoimmune reactions." Based in part on these cautions, from a well respected British university no less, I will be not be taking the covid vaccine for now...

Balifrog

Markit wrote I'm so tired of the endless vaccine discussions! Let's make it really simple: If the people next door had a virus that might kill your wife and children would you give them the vaccine that would probably save their lives? If "No" then are you prepared to look at yourself in the mirror if they die [U][I]for the rest of your days[/I][/U]? If "Yes" job done.

You forget to mention that the chances of them catching the virus is very low, and even if they catch it, the chances of dying from it is less than 0,5 % !

Markit

Balifrog wrote You forget to mention that the chances of them catching the virus is very low, and even if they catch it, the chances of dying from it is less than 0,5 % !

Geee I wonder what the families of the 300,000 + dead people in the USA would say to your mathematics? Not to mention the 3 million people that have had it, survived and are now busy with the follow on problems like strokes, lung problems and all the other "little" stuff.

harryopal

Here's an explanation of mRNA vaccines (like the covid vaccines) from the University of Cambridge in the UK. https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines. It was published in 2018, so there has been no politicizing of the content to suit government policy. It seems that the technology is quite exciting and potentially game changing. However, a couple of key takeaways from this report are that "there is still a lot of work to be done before mRNA vaccines can become standard treatments, in the meantime, we need a better understanding of their potential side effects, and more evidence of their long term efficacy" and "safety: better understanding of vaccine adverse effects is needed – these can include inflammation or autoimmune reactions." Based in part on these cautions, from a well respected British university no less, I will be not be taking the covid vaccine for now...

Meanwhile Peru has just suspended use of a Chinese vaccine after serious adverse effects. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-peru-clinical-trials-chinese-covid.html

hadodi

Money, money makes the world go round

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