spicyayam
My wife was just telling me about a foreigner who won a case in court against their nominee. The foreigner was getting married to a local and wanted to change the property to his wife's name. The nominee protested so the case went to court and the foreigner won. I just wanted to post this, as many people on forums always say foreigners can never win a property dispute here. It's a shame that there aren't any reporters covering these kinds of cases.
davita
My wife was just telling me about a foreigner who won a case in court against their nominee. The foreigner was getting married to a local and wanted to change the property to his wife's name. The nominee protested so the case went to court and the foreigner won. I just wanted to post this, as many people on forums always say foreigners can never win a property dispute here. It's a shame that there aren't any reporters covering these kinds of cases.[/QUOTE]I agree as I haven't seen this reported.It would be interesting to have more details 'in law' on what exactly the foreigner won. Is there an appeal to a higher court....was a precedence set...etc?If a precedence was set it offers other possible legal situations between mixed couples, and property ownership, that is being discussed on another thread.
spicyayam
My understanding of Indonesian law is that there is no precedence like in other countries. I am sure the decision can be appealed in a higher court, if of course the person who lost has the money to pursue it. Precedent, in Common Law systems, is the principle that previous cases with similar facts on an identical point of law will bind courts of equal or lower status. In Civil Law systems, courts are not bound by decisions of courts at the same level or higher. This means that there is little need for law reporting in Indonesia and certainly not for published authoritative sets of judgments. Some, limited collections of judgments are published (for example, Yurisprudensi) but they are ad hoc in nature. In fact, statements as to preferred interpretation or policy issued by the Supreme Court in the form of surat edaran (circular letters), rather like practice notes in the Common Law System, tend to be more influential than previous decisions, even of the Supreme Court.[/QUOTE][url]www.law.unimelb.edu.au[/url]
davita
You are right and 'precedence', as we know it, probably isn't the right word. However, if those ladies from 'Perca' had 'details' that a court had made a decision regarding property rights of a foreigner in a mixed marriage....I'm sure they would like to present it at the next hearing with the Constitutional Court (MK) on Sep 7.I'm pretty sure they have lawyers who would have seen the case you talk about but it is a pity the media doesn't report.
BKT
By won do you mean he paid a bigger bribe than the nominee? Isn't that how the justice system works here?
mugwump
I fail to see the loss of bias. The foreigner will have an Indonesian wife and give up an Indonesian nominee. Meanwhile a pre-nup must be signed before marriage so what does the foreigner potentially "gain"?
Markit
Spicy can you let us know the details - names/dates/courts/whatever?
spicyayam
[COLOR=#333333]I fail to see the loss of bias. The foreigner will have an Indonesian wife and give up an Indonesian nominee. Meanwhile a pre-nup must be signed before marriage so what does the foreigner potentially "gain"?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]I don't know the exact details of course, but I believe the nominee didn't want to sign over the property to the owner's wife. Maybe it doesn't seem like a big deal as in effect he is just keeping what he already owned. There are however some people on various forums saying use of nominee agreement is illegal, so if the government finds out, they will immediately take control of the land. [COLOR=#333333]Spicy can you let us know the details - names/dates/courts/whatever?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]The court was Singaraja. Sorry I don't know any other details. Maybe someone can find a new's article about it.
ronb
I agree as I haven't seen this reported.It would be interesting to have more details 'in law' on what exactly the foreigner won. Is there an appeal to a higher court....was a precedence set...etc?If a precedence was set it offers other possible legal situations between mixed couples, and property ownership, that is being discussed on another thread.[/QUOTE]Usually, I think the nominee agreements say that the foreigner can move to a new nominee after paying out the old one. So the interesting thing to discover would be the details of the old nominee's protest.
davita
Usually, I think the nominee agreements say that the foreigner can move to a new nominee after paying out the old one. So the interesting thing to discover would be the details of the old nominee's protest.[/QUOTE]I agree. The Akta Pernyataan (Statement Deed) would indicate what the agreement was and, if the nominee didn't comply, then it becomes a contract dispute. People sue others all the time when a contract is in dispute. If this is this case.....then the foreigner winning doesn't really help on property rights.
ronb
Well it is a helpful outcome if you had been paying attention to the fear, uncertainty and doubt merchants referred to by Spicy when he saysThere are however some people on various forums saying use of nominee agreement is illegal, so if the government finds out, they will immediately take control of the land. [/quote]
davita
Well it is a helpful outcome if you had been paying attention to the fear, uncertainty and doubt merchants referred to by Spicy when he says....[I]"There are however some people on various forums saying use of nominee agreement is illegal, so if the government finds out, they will immediately take control of the land[/I]."[/QUOTE]Maybe those merchants are somebody like the guy I wrote about in my latest blog (prenuptual). He thought having a pre-nup guaranteed his villa was sacrosanct...and he was right! It was sacrosanct to his wife and I doubt if there were any (pernyataan) agreements to even consider.
