Hindu / Muslim Staff and Managing Annual Leave

elsieprobert

Hi everyone, I wonder if there is any accepted format with coming up with a fair system when managing staff annual holidays. I have both muslim and hindu staff and am becoming increasingly aware that allocating them the same amount of annual leave does not seem equitable. My Hindu staff member takes the usual amount of time away from work to attend temple ceremonies, celebrate Galungan / Kuningan, Nyepi etc etc. These days actually add up to a significant amount of days. My Muslim staff member is at work day in day out (she takes part of her annual leave over Idul Fitri). It seems a little unfair that they then get the same annual leave and thought there might be an accepted method of evening things up a bit. Interested to hear any ideas.

ronb

I understand your dilemma, but don't have anything creative to suggest. Best of luck.

Monger SEA

Easy, just don't hire Moslems. They bring their whole family along, build mosques, purchase only in "halal" shops and restaurants, (therefore financing more Moslems families) and thus are quickly ruining the island. Hiring them is like chopping off the branch on which you are sitting.

Nydave

What an ignorant asshole,

spicyayam

I know it is important to give days off for ceremonies and so forth, but there are some workers who will take advantage of this for sure. Give everyone the same number of holidays and let them ask for holidays in advance. I know it probably won't work out that way but you can try. Some workers might prefer cash over holidays. That's an option too, but I am sure that could lead to discontent also, as works all seem to discuss their salary.

JohnnyCool

Monger SEA wroteEasy, just don't hire Moslems. They bring their whole family along, build mosques, purchase only in "halal" shops and restaurants, (therefore financing more Moslems families) and thus are quickly ruining the island. Hiring them is like chopping off the branch on which you are sitting.

You [I][B]really[/B][/I] think so? Around 25% of the population in Bali these days, (excluding foreign/domestic tourists), is made up of non-Balinese Hindus. Most of those are Moslems. You have a problem with Moslems? They're Indonesians, too, remember. I find your comment offensive, ignorant and patently stupid. :mad:

Monger SEA

So what will you do when Bali becomes 75% Moslem..? Let me tell you: you will SELL your villa or business and escape to the next "tropical paradise" (if there are any left)... None of you hypocrites will stay here when this happens. How come we don't see any of those bourgeois, wine-sipping Westerners live in Java or Sumatra instead...? Or Aceh, with its perfect beaches? Because nobody truly wants to live among Moslems. The tolerance is just a posture. Even Lombok can't take off precisely for this reason: no one wants to live there for any extended period of time. Funny thing is, I live in Jakarta (not in Bali) most of the time, so I know very well what a Moslem shithole is. And I'm personally fine with living in a Moslem shithole. But most people would never accept to live in such conditions. So we better think before it's too late. Your comfortable, neo-colonial lifestyle in Bali, you owe it 100% to the Hindu culture. You can find beaches and palm trees everywhere. All those million-dollar hospitality businesses are literally feeding off the positive environment maintained by the Hindu culture, and yet they are importing Moslem staff in droves every year just out of greed, to make more profit. And one day when it will be too late, they won't stay here to deal with a totally degraded society. They will just leave.

JohnnyCool wroteYou have a problem with Moslems? They're Indonesians, too, remember.

Yeah, and "we all bleed red", blah, blah... :D I saw the same dynamics at play when I was living in fancy neighborhoods in America: everyone proclaims to love Blacks, have Black friends, etc, UNTIL a Black family purchases a house in their street, then everybody SELLS in a hurry before the house prices crash... It's total hypocrisy. The same kind of things may very well happen in Bali.

JohnnyCool

[QUOTE]So what will you do when Bali becomes 75% Moslem..?[/QUOTE] I’m not sure. I lived in Java for about two years and eventually packed up, sold our newly constructed house and moved back to Bali. Why? Not because I dislike Moslems, (I don’t), but primarily because the poor-quality blaring sound systems on the mosques started to drive me nuts. Plus a few other more minor annoyances like you couldn’t get ham on a pizza, drivers and motorbike riders seemed even more stupid than the ones in Bali, buying beer/whisky sometimes made me feel like a [I]faux[/I] criminal, etc. And one other thing...in “our” tiny village, word got out that I was a psychologist. Somehow, that morphed into I was a Western doctor. We had locals lining up waiting for me to cure them. I vividly remember crossing back into Bali and feeling that suddenly, the “world” had been restored back to technicolour. As well as more “free” and more “laid back”. “Vibrant”, if you will. Historically, Balinese have been a pretty war-like bunch, fighting among themselves for control of the various regencies, as well as against colonialists (Dutch, English, Japanese). I believe that many Balinese today are feeling growingly uncomfortable with the state of their island. More Moslems settling here, 10 million domestic/foreign tourists coming every year, environmental degradation, endemic corruption, etc. With the growing Moslem population, the Balinese [I]might[/I] try to curtail it, one day. I’m not sure how. Sharpen their krises again? [QUOTE]...All those million-dollar hospitality businesses are literally feeding off the positive environment maintained by the Hindu culture, and yet they are importing Moslem staff in droves every year just out of greed, to make more profit...[/QUOTE] Many Moslems, (and others from different, e.g, "Christian" islands), take jobs here that the Balinese don’t want to do themselves. Yes, Moslem workers often do work for less but are seen to be more diligent and reliable than locals. And they are not compelled to participate in endless Balinese ceremonies like the Balinese are. “A Moslem comes to Bali selling [I]bakso[/I] to raise money to buy land. A Balinese sells land to buy [I]bakso[/I], a smartphone, TV, another motorbike, car on credit.” ;)

hermit

Monger SEA wroteEasy, just don't hire Moslems. They bring their whole family along, build mosques, purchase only in "halal" shops and restaurants, (therefore financing more Moslems families) and thus are quickly ruining the island. Hiring them is like chopping off the branch on which you are sitting.

Is it not time for a "dislike" button?

davita

hermit wroteIs it not time for a "dislike" button?

Please do not ask for that...it is used elsewhere as a weapon...we don't need that. If you don't like what a person has written just write an effective response like JohnnyCool's post # 8.

hafez

I think this discussion is out of the question, right?

elsieprobert

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas everyone (some were a little off topic I think but I still appreciate the input). I thought there might be a format that is generally accepted as being fair but it seems employers just work out their own system. It shouldn't be too tricky, my staff are very reasonable and I think we will just sit down and work it out together, that way, they are involved in coming up with a policy so are more likely to support it in the future.

hafez

elsieprobert wroteHi everyone, I wonder if there is any accepted format with coming up with a fair system when managing staff annual holidays. I have both muslim and hindu staff and am becoming increasingly aware that allocating them the same amount of annual leave does not seem equitable. My Hindu staff member takes the usual amount of time away from work to attend temple ceremonies, celebrate Galungan / Kuningan, Nyepi etc etc. These days actually add up to a significant amount of days. My Muslim staff member is at work day in day out (she takes part of her annual leave over Idul Fitri). It seems a little unfair that they then get the same annual leave and thought there might be an accepted method of evening things up a bit. Interested to hear any ideas.

Indonesia has various characteristics of citizens to answer your questions 1. You should make a fair policy for your company even though I know it is not easy 2. I suggest you to create a priority category for your staff either (christian, muslim, hindu, budha & other beliefs) 3. it can be accumulated with staff leave, maybe 4. if there is too much work permit there may be wage cuts in accordance with the prevailing policies in this country that's more that I can suggest

saranindo

Sorry to bring this up again, the annual leave given by government is 12 days per year after their one year service. that's outside the red days public holiday. if you are worried about the equality and balance with different religion team members, just strictly apply the rules. takes more than 12 days per year and they will get deduction per day salary. that's the best balance so far. some moslems takes their 12 days straight during the lebaran, and some balinesse hindu's takes their annual leave by their needs of ceremony.

Markit

saranindo wrote Sorry to bring this up again, the annual leave given by government is 12 days per year after their one year service. that's outside the red days public holiday. if you are worried about the equality and balance with different religion team members, just strictly apply the rules. takes more than 12 days per year and they will get deduction per day salary. that's the best balance so far. some moslems takes their 12 days straight during the lebaran, and some balinesse hindu's takes their annual leave by their needs of ceremony.

Your post is eloquent and feeling but 2 years have gone by. Just tell the Moslems to pray more and they will git some dosh. For the others good luck.