Markit
I've recently discovered a local saving plan that is used to finance the various larger and smaller religious ceremonies that the locals have to pay for. At the moment it is run by various individuals with no larger organization behind it. What happens: for instance on the local beaches here in Karangasem the hawkers, waiters and massage people all belong to a savings plan where they contribute daily as much as they can towards the year end ceremonies - it usually ranges from US equivalent of 40 or 60 cents a day. Now the lady that is running this particular program here has to go every day to each of 40 or 50 people that are part of the plan and pick up the money personally and write it down in her book and then deposit it in her bank account at the end of the day or the next morning. Bali is not a particularly dangerous place but this process is fraught with potential problems not to mention being time consuming and she also has to earn a living as the "profit" from her banking job are absolutely minimal. My question is: is there some established method of doing this whole process over her mobile "smart" phone. I know that people here send each other "pulsa" or phone money when the one or other has run out so it doesn't seem much of a stretch to have that same thing happening in the situation described above does it? And then at the end of the day the "banker" can then put it all on her account also per mobile phone at her local bank. In my imagination there's some app that will do the accounting and notification. There are already various micro loan facilities here in the developing world - the Grameen bank in Bangladesh springs to mind. But that is for loaning money, not depositing it. I would be very grateful for your advise or some tips as to where I can look further for an answer.
Smoke
Markit great idea but why not just transfer from bank account to her bank account ? useing a system like pulsa has would entail to many "legal" permissions .easy enough to make an app for the phones but how would you get funds put in ur account on the app system . if using same phone pulsa would all wireless carriers allow there money ( u prepay for pulsa) to be used for this ? also using pulsa you pay per amount you buy ( 10,000 rupiah for phone costs really 11,000. and so on most give gratis fee on 100,000 purchase per phone ) Some warungs or toko's owners also do not have a handphone so manual pick up or delivery is needed.I visit a few warungs etc where they do the book ( ledger) system for that and also small loans etc .I have no problem having the app made for phones if need be ! I am very friendly with a few app sites and thier programmers
Markit
Hi Smoke thanks for your feedback and good ideas - at the moment I'm really asking about pre-existing systems of micro banking. They do already exist in many parts of the world and it would appear to be just to get some information on which one is the best and see if the banks here are amenable to running it. I do know that BRI is involved with making some microloans to small businesses and single entrepreneurs but that's not the direction we want to go in I'm afraid. Thanks for your help anyway and if you do hear of anything vaguely in the direction I'm looking then please shout. Alternatively it might be a good little business to get into, particularly here in Bali with the never ending outlays the locals have for this or that ceremony. In the end that's what this is about - financing their religious parties.
davita
We make a contribution to our Banjar every three months. Our maid delivers to the Klian and gets a signed receipt. Couldn't locals from the same temple or banjar do the same?
Smoke
My Bangar visits the houses and Villas.and they tell of you if interested whats going on . very informative basic updates of meetings incase you missed the meeting ,Markit BRI or any bank can do that !They have axcess to their banking accounts . It is easy enough to SMS each donator ( monthly , weekly, etc) and hve then use their online bank account ( most banks account can be used online ( just have to let bank do the magic) and transfer funds to the ceremony account .you can transfer funds from most RI bnks to another via phone or most ATMS same as you can pay for satalite tv etc ) how would they get funds into this special micro banking app ? would they trust it and use it(older locals not trust banks but manytrust the banjars)Just trying to help out but it seems hard to do it due to fund axcess
Markit
The people I'm talking about are POOR people. The don't have bank accounts and are fatally intimidated by the pure thought of going into a bank. You need to open your eyes to the rest of Bali - it is full of people that have lives, and surprisingly happy ones too, on $5-$10 a day and live from crisis to crisis (and ceremony to ceremony). If you ever wondered about why nobody can ever change IDR 100k then think about that it's 10/15 days wages for many. If you were on $3000 a month in the US that's like someone giving you $1000 to pay for a pack of smokes.
Smoke
Markit I understand but easy to make an app for this BUT problem is how they fund the transaction . Even in the south here many not have bank accounts . Many lso not trust the banks also Problem is once they download this app HOW DO THEY PUT THERE MONEY IN IT TO PAY FOR END OF YEAR CEREMONY OR ANY CEREMONY
Markit
What my lady friend does is she's a school teacher in the mornings and in the afternoon she moonlights as a Masseuse on the beach in Pasir Puti. As a school teacher she has some moral standing amongst the beach crowd and therefore is trusted with their money. Which she collects daily or when ever the others have some spare. She take her little ledger book around and each day writes the name of the contributor and the amount. At the end of the day she goes to her bank and deposits the dosh in her account. When Galungan or some other ceremony comes around the contributors then go to my lady friend and ask for their money back to be able to celebrate the ceremony correctly. As you can probably imagine this whole process requires a lot of leg work and is not undangerous for the participants. It seems to me that the only sticking point in an entirely mobile phone based concept would be the translation of the "pulsa" money sent to my lady friend on her phone by the contributors into the "real" money that she could then electronically deposit into her bank account and then of course the return trip, but I don't really see that as a problem as she could then do a face to face cash transaction. I'm open to any other rational solution too.
Smoke
ok ya maybe just transfer pulsa to her phone per each person/phone( she would have to keep a journal of each transaction ( easy with excel etc) . now how does she exchange all that pulsa to rupiah ? maybe exchange it weekly to a few pulsa sellers ?I agree system know is tons of leg work and time I will ask a few app builders if it possible to auto log from it to a form etc .
Markit
Cool!
Smoke
so something like this ? I want to use my pulsa as a bank and people pay me with pulsaany way to auto create a log of senders phone number amount sent and date ?That be the basics then can expand if it possible ?
davita
The people I'm talking about are POOR people. The don't have bank accounts and are fatally intimidated by the pure thought of going into a bank. You need to open your eyes to the rest of Bali - it is full of people that have lives, and surprisingly happy ones too, on $5-$10 a day and live from crisis to crisis (and ceremony to ceremony). If you ever wondered about why nobody can ever change IDR 100k then think about that it's 10/15 days wages for many. If you were on $3000 a month in the US that's like someone giving you $1000 to pay for a pack of smokes.[/QUOTE]I don't understand markit...are these the same people that own smartphones...what do they need a smartphone for? I recently got a smartphone as a present and cannot find much use....other than an expensive toy!
spicyayam
Bitcoin could be a possibility technology wise. Are you trying to make it easier for the person who has to go around and collect the money? I think in a way you are missing the social aspect in that the person who goes around collecting the money probably enjoys meeting everyone in the group and a chance for a gossip.
Smoke
Spicy that would mean all people would need bitcoins and how would they get the bitcoins ?agree it social also but very very time consuming
Markit
I don't understand markit...are these the same people that own smartphones...what do they need a smartphone for? I recently got a smartphone as a present and cannot find much use....other than an expensive toy![/QUOTE]Davita you've already got your Luddite wings please don't try so quickly for the pips to go with them. You may not understand why anyone would want a phone that is patently smarter than they are but you have to understand that for poor people the smart phone is a window into a universe they can only imagine. Facebook, Twitter, Email, surfing, cameras, gps, weather reports, videos, music and a telephoneetc, etc.You may not want or need all those but goodness for these people it's a world shaking event.
Markit
Bitcoin could be a possibility technology wise. Are you trying to make it easier for the person who has to go around and collect the money? I think in a way you are missing the social aspect in that the person who goes around collecting the money probably enjoys meeting everyone in the group and a chance for a gossip.[/QUOTE]Bitcoin is bridge too far I think but thanks for thinking with me. About the social aspect you may very well be right - it wasn't originally my idea but I was asked so I do. Very obedient of me so far.
davita
Davita you've already got your Luddite wings please don't try so quickly for the pips to go with them. You may not understand why anyone would want a phone that is patently smarter than they are but you have to understand that for poor people the smart phone is a window into a universe they can only imagine. Facebook, Twitter, Email, surfing, cameras, gps, weather reports, videos, music and a telephoneetc, etc.You may not want or need all those but goodness for these people it's a world shaking event.[/QUOTE]I didn't suggest that a smartphone isn't desirable but you chastised the rest of us with your post thus...."[I]You need to open your eyes to the rest of Bali - it is full of people that have lives, and surprisingly happy ones too, on $5-$10 a day and live from crisis to crisis (and ceremony to ceremony). If you ever wondered about why nobody can ever change IDR 100k then think about that it's 10/15 days wages for many."[/I]Given your above is accurate I'd think the cost of a smartphone is prohibitive and pointed out that absurdity.I'm not poor and would very much like to have an 80 foot yacht and sail the Caribbean and Mediterranean...but I can't afford such extravagance.....and therefore don't have one.:grumpy:
Smoke
Davita This is indonesia not Hong Kong or Canada or Scotland or even USA . please adjust your thinking to where you are
DenpasarHouse
Pfft! You all sound like you're fresh off the plane.Any level of complexity above what your travelling banker is already doing is doomed to failure. Pulsa! Apps! Excel! Bitcoin! Baaaaaaaaah! You're all crazy! (Except you Davita.)For starters, an entry level smartphone is about Rp.500.000 or more. That's not a small outlay for "POOR people". You also forget that smartphones and Apps require the internet and internet access isn't free.Secondly, any electronic/computer based solution would require the log of transactions to be constantly and reliably backed up. Who the hell's gonna do that? It takes a lot of computer literacy before you can safely ditch a paper based system.Thirdly, and most importantly, people only sign up for this program because someone physically comes round to remind them to make their payments. Any other system you could come up with wouldn't last a week without this. People at this level of Indonesian society are not proactive about organising their lives, hence the need for this system in the first place.Don't forget the old proverb "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", if you set her up with a fancy new system, only for it to fail, you'd make a pariah out of her.
Markit
I didn't suggest that a smartphone isn't desirable but you chastised the rest of us with your post thus...."[I]You need to open your eyes to the rest of Bali - it is full of people that have lives, and surprisingly happy ones too, on $5-$10 a day and live from crisis to crisis (and ceremony to ceremony). If you ever wondered about why nobody can ever change IDR 100k then think about that it's 10/15 days wages for many."[/I]Given your above is accurate I'd think the cost of a smartphone is prohibitive and pointed out that absurdity.I'm not poor and would very much like to have an 80 foot yacht and sail the Caribbean and Mediterranean...but I can't afford such extravagance.....and therefore don't have one.:grumpy:[/QUOTE]Not a chastisement but more a simple statement of fact. I regularly have the opportunity to speak at length with visitors to the island and expats - they all seem to forget that Bali is a small province in a developing 3rd world country that just [I]raised[/I] it's minimum wage to IDR 1.3 juta A MONTH!!!. In Oregon they just raised it to $15/hour and in England they want to raise it to 9/hour, meaning that in an average [SIZE=3][B]8 hour day[/B][/SIZE] people in our world who have little or no education will earn MORE than the average [I]MONTHLY[/I] wage for a worker here. Davita you statement seemed to say that because they could afford a smart phone then they weren't really poor. This would have shown a certain lack of understanding of the true situation IMHO
