mister567
Nydave wroteThe second part of your first post is confusing,if you don`t already know each other well enough then why are you considering marriage at all in either country,getting married is easy,getting out of it is not,
Travel to Bali,spend the necessary time to know each other better,if all works out good between both of you then take it to the next level,seems that right now you are complicating the whole situation,take it one step at a time,
But for Gods sake dont arrive in Bali ,get married and then start getting to know each other,thats Hollywood stuff,where everyone lives happily ever after,
Ready to get married, yes, but not ready to bring her to a new country and culture just yet.
I don't think it's healthy or wise without giving it more time.
But I would definitely need to bring her back home for a visit ASAP.
sakumabali
Me as a "repeat offender" wanted to write similar. I was 30 the first time. I couldn't agree with Johnny more.
The french call it "coup de foudre", it's wonderful BUT in my opinion asian women often asking men (in general) very early to make an commitment. The asian men are used to it so they don't want to get laid immediately. But for western men it's different < : a couple of beers, a bikini, nice chat and voilà they really want to get married! after a couple of weeks....
Better travel and find it out! Cheaper too....
JohnnyCool
[I]Mister587[/I]
From your initial questions and responses so far, I don’t think you’re really as “ready” as you imagine. Not by a long shot.
Why would you marry someone you don’t know properly? Not to be judgmental, but I think you’ve got this back-to-front. You do know the saying that “Love is blind” right? There’s a nastier saying along the lines of “stop thinking with your d...”.
You seem to be obsessed with getting your fiancee to visit the USA. Good luck with that
Why don’t you take her on a holiday somewhere closer (such as Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand)? If you haven’t been to those places yourself, you could both enjoy being in a different cultural setting together and see what it’s like.
[I]
Any[/I] couple travelling together can quickly become stressful for one or the other, or both. Kind of an acid test for how strong you are together and an indicator of what might/could lie ahead.
Another option: travel around Indonesia together and see how that goes. The chances are that your fiancee hasn’t been anywhere outside of Bali yet, so again, a valuable learning experience for the both of you.
Good luck with whatever happens. I hope it works out.
mister567
JohnnyCool wrote[I]Mister587[/I]
From your initial questions and responses so far, I don’t think you’re really as “ready” as you imagine. Not by a long shot.
Why would you marry someone you don’t know properly? Not to be judgmental, but I think you’ve got this back-to-front. You do know the saying that “Love is blind” right? There’s a nastier saying along the lines of “stop thinking with your d...”.
You seem to be obsessed with getting your fiancee to visit the USA. Good luck with that
Why don’t you take her on a holiday somewhere closer (such as Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand)? If you haven’t been to those places yourself, you could both enjoy being in a different cultural setting together and see what it’s like.
[I]
Any[/I] couple travelling together can quickly become stressful for one or the other, or both. Kind of an acid test for how strong you are together and an indicator of what might/could lie ahead.
Another option: travel around Indonesia together and see how that goes. The chances are that your fiancee hasn’t been anywhere outside of Bali yet, so again, a valuable learning experience for the both of you.
Good luck with whatever happens. I hope it works out.
I'm definitely not obsessed with getting her to the USA, if anything it's the opposite.
But I would at least need to bring her home at some point for a visit. That much is required. Hence my other question about the USA visa/citizenship aspect of things.
And yes we plan to do some traveling in Asia first.
Nydave
You can find all the Us visa requirements on the Us Embassy website,its not as difficult as people say if you are being honest,it says that if she gets a fiance visa then you guys are required to marry within 90 days of arrival in the Usa,it just takes a while to get it,like a couple of months,which should suit you as your not in any immediate hurry of getting one,just take your time,make sure to be honest about everything and be patient,with our new Dear Leader in the White House now the wait might be even longer,i suggest going to the Embassy in Ri,and ask them what you need to do and what they require from you to make the application,
Good Luck,and do keep us informed,
mister567
Nydave wroteYou can find all the Us visa requirements on the Us Embassy website,its not as difficult as people say if you are being honest,it says that if she gets a fiance visa then you guys are required to marry within 90 days of arrival in the Usa,it just takes a while to get it,like a couple of months,which should suit you as your not in any immediate hurry of getting one,just take your time,make sure to be honest about everything and be patient,with our new Dear Leader in the White House now the wait might be even longer,i suggest going to the Embassy in Ri,and ask them what you need to do and what they require from you to make the application,
Good Luck,and do keep us informed,
Embassy in Ri?
davita
Embassy in Ri?
RI is the Republic of Indonesia and the USA Embassy in RI is here....
https://id.usembassy.gov/
and the USA Consul in Bali is here....
https://id.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/consular-agency-bali/
JohnnyCool
[QUOTE]I'm definitely not obsessed with getting her to the USA, if anything it's the opposite. But I would at least need to bring her home at some point for a visit. That much is required.[/QUOTE]
There’s a big difference between trying to get a visa to [B]visit[/B] the USA and starting a process for gaining citizenship there. In the case of the latter, your fiancee/wife would have to renounce her Indonesian citizenship and that can be a mighty big step with loads of future consequences she might not like, if things go wrong between you.
What’s “the opposite” you mention? You don’t really want to get her to the USA? If so, what’s the “problem”?
Now, I’m not trying to scare or dissuade you with the following, but it might be worth your while reading. (Warning: It’s not pleasant, but interesting.) You can check it out at uluwatu.com.
[QUOTE]
[B]H[/B]ave you ever dreamed of loving and living in Paradise?
I did. I fell in love with an enchanting Balinese girl and moved to the Island of the Gods. Twenty years later my children and I fled Bali ahead of threats of murder.
I am a writer, but this is a story I would rather have not told. Still, I'm happy my readers agree that [B]Eleven Demons[/B] rivals any novel in intricate plot, memorable characters, and ever-mounting suspense.
[B]Eleven Demons[/B] is a thriller, a love story, a glimpse into a world of faith and dark magic, a journey through an exotic land, an essential primer of Indonesian law, a history of an astonishing case, an exploration of the limits of loyalty and greed.
It is not, however, a map of shortcuts to Paradise. [/QUOTE]
tintin
JohnnyCool wroteThere’s a big difference between trying to get a visa to [B]visit[/B] the USA and starting a process for gaining citizenship there. In the case of the latter, your fiancee/wife would have to renounce her Indonesian citizenship and that can be a mighty big step with loads of future consequences she might not like, if things go wrong between you.
I believe you mean that the fiancee would loose her citizenship as far as the Indonesian government is concerned, a.s.a she would become US citizen. As far as the US A government is concerned, since she was a NATIVE Indonesian citizen (i.e. not naturalized Indonesian in the first place), she would have dual citizenship.
Nydave
Ok,but if the Indonesian citizen abroad keeps their Indonesian passport up to date all the time while abroad,and say they also get a foreign passport ( citizenship),how does the Indonesian Government know that a particular citizen has obtained a foreign passport, does the foreign country whom issues the Indonesian citizen with a passport report that to the Indonesian Government,how does all of this work
I fully understand the case several months ago about some guy who returned to Indonesia from Usa and took up a Government position ,he had American citizenship also and lost his job ,had to give up his American citizenship and then they rehired him,but this was a guy in politics,can they control all of their citizens,if so then how ?
davita
tintin wroteI believe you mean that the fiancee would loose her citizenship as far as the Indonesian government is concerned, a.s.a she would become US citizen. As far as the US A government is concerned, since she was a NATIVE Indonesian citizen (i.e. not naturalized Indonesian in the first place), she would have dual citizenship.
You are correct that most foreign countries that have Dual Citizenship don't care but does it matter.....Indonesian law, on being granted another countries citizenship, means losing Indonesian citizenship. Thus only left with one citizenship...unless taking another citizenship from a Dual Citizenship available country. I.E. can be both USA and Canadian citizen.
from wiki.....
[SIZE=5][B]Losing Indonesian citizenship[/B][/SIZE]
This could happen if:
a person over the age of 18 obtains another citizenship by his/her own will.
Therefore citizenship/passport is revoked and, if wanting to return the Indonesian citizenship, the applicant has to go through the Immigration process to recover....similar to a foreigner wanting to become an Indonesian citizen.
..
JohnnyCool
[QUOTE]...she would have dual citizenship...[/QUOTE]
Yes, she would, [B]but[/B] [U]Indonesian law[/U] doesn’t allow people to have dual citizenship, apart from mixed marriages where any offspring have a choice until they reach 18 yo. (Davita pointed this out above.)
I appreciate your comment, tintin. On the other hand, I feel a bit like
[QUOTE]Who ‘dat dere, say who ‘dat dere when I say who ‘dat dere?...Who ‘dat dere?[/QUOTE]
Whenever I try to wrap my head around “Indonesian law”, I remind myself of three important things:
1. Yes “laws” exist. 2. How or if they’re applied. 3. The result of the experience.
I think these are three completely different entities.
Oh, and I think I believe what I mean (most of the time).
Mark
I know many Indonesians married to foreigners who took the passport of their foreign spouse and kept the Indo one, especially if they live outside Indonesia (not my wife tho, she refused on principle). Until countries do full information sharing on all people, they are unlikely to be caught unless they try to enter or exit Indonesia with the foreign passport (or even use it to check in for the flight to Indonesia), or in the unlikely event an Indo immigration officer gets suspicious and asks where they live abroad and to show proof of a residence visa for that country (e.g., US, UK, Singapore etc.). Then things could get sticky and as noted above, if caught the loss of Indonesian citizenship is automatic.
Mark
davita wroteThat's a good point Mark...if the WNI enters Indonesia on the RI passport it will have the last exit date stamped. Any curious immigration officer will ask..."where have you been for all those months/years?"
If they enter with the foreign passport they'll need some kind of visa and info may show up when the passport is swiped....i.e. same person has an Indonesian passport........those computers are more integrated than a few years ago.
Yep, a WNI having two passports can be a high risk strategy. On the other hand, it is a pain to have to get the wife a visa every time we travel outside Asia so I can understand why some people would be willing to take the risk.
JohnnyCool
Nydave wroteOk,but if the Indonesian citizen abroad keeps their Indonesian passport up to date all the time while abroad,and say they also get a foreign passport ( citizenship),how does the Indonesian Government know that a particular citizen has obtained a foreign passport, does the foreign country whom issues the Indonesian citizen with a passport report that to the Indonesian Government,how does all of this work
I fully understand the case several months ago about some guy who returned to Indonesia from Usa and took up a Government position ,he had American citizenship also and lost his job ,had to give up his American citizenship and then they rehired him,but this was a guy in politics,can they control all of their citizens,if so then how ?
They've got computers these days.
...I fully understand the case several months ago...
[I][B]Really?[/B][/I] That's amazing and a big bravo from me.
davita
Nydave wroteOk,but if the Indonesian citizen abroad keeps their Indonesian passport up to date all the time while abroad,and say they also get a foreign passport ( citizenship),how does the Indonesian Government know that a particular citizen has obtained a foreign passport, does the foreign country whom issues the Indonesian citizen with a passport report that to the Indonesian Government,how does all of this work
I fully understand the case several months ago about some guy who returned to Indonesia from Usa and took up a Government position ,he had American citizenship also and lost his job ,had to give up his American citizenship and then they rehired him,but this was a guy in politics,can they control all of their citizens,if so then how ?
There are many ways that Indonesians [B]do[/B] keep their passports....but it's an illegal act. The Minister you refer was dobbed-in by those opposing his appointment...just like other envious or grudging Indonesians might do to another.
I'm sure RI immigration don't care too much unless something happens.
I know in Canada's RI Embassy/Consul an Indonesian needs to show their PR card to be able to extend their RI passport...if they have Canadian citizenship you don't have a PR card.
My wife was in that situation and I suggested we return to Indonesia and get a new passport but she was too scared as she could have been denied future entry back in Indonesia if caught.
davita
Mark wroteUntil countries do full information sharing on all people, they are unlikely to be caught unless they try to enter or exit Indonesia with the foreign passport (or even use it to check in for the flight to Indonesia), or in the unlikely event an Indo immigration officer gets suspicious and asks where they live abroad and to show proof of a residence visa for that country (e.g., US, UK, Singapore etc.). Then [COLOR=#ff0000]things could get sticky[/COLOR] and as noted above, if caught the loss of Indonesian citizenship is automatic.
That's a good point Mark...if the WNI enters Indonesia on the RI passport it will have the last exit date stamped. Any curious immigration officer will ask..."where have you been for all those months/years?"
If they enter with the foreign passport they'll need some kind of visa and info may show up when the passport is swiped....i.e. same person has an Indonesian passport........those computers are more integrated than a few years ago.
