Rangi
Just seen this and I think it could build a bit of momentum. [url]https://www.facebook.com/events/642158429199923/?ref_newsfeed_story_type=regular[/url]Sounds like a whole bunch of people are going to make a bit of a scene about bag snatching on woman and crime ect. I can't copy and past the discription but basically they are going to get together on June 7 on Dewi st in Kuta and make a bit of a commotion with signs ect and are trying to get journilists to go down. I might go down for a few beers to check it out and have a bit of a yarn with them.
balibule
I think she's got a point. Several actually;[COLOR=#141823][FONT=Helvetica][URL="https://www.facebook.com/lizzie.love.9693?fref=nf"]https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc3/t1.0-1/c0.0.50.50/p50x50/1234942_10152209821839606_178641553_t.jpg[/IMG][/URL][h=5][COLOR=#898F9C][B][URL="https://www.facebook.com/lizzie.love.9693?fref=nf"]Lizzie Love[/URL][/B][/COLOR][/h][COLOR=#898F9C][COLOR=gray][URL="https://www.facebook.com/events/642158429199923/permalink/642428942506205/"]2 hrs[/URL][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#141823][FONT=Helvetica]I certainly can appreciate the intent, concern and the effort put in for this event and I thank you for that. I humbly ask that before proceeding any further you consider the following:1. Legality issues: The right to assemble; licensing requirements; the right to post banners on public and private property; interference with traffic, visa restrictions on actions taken etc. A night or 2 in the Poldar is not a fun experience and legal expenses could be hefty.2. Media Involvement/ Impact on tourism: International media have a clear bias and ratings agenda to report and skew reporting to the negative; historically the more international media the less likely to have a positive outcome; open participation by attendees who speak to media has the potential to be emotive, speculative, unsubstantiated negative gossip and may be legally defamatory and racially biased. Correct me if I am wrong but defamation in Indonesia is a criminal offense not a civil one.3. Election in July: Please consider the timing of such a demonstration. A demonstration like this could be used and skewed for political advantage4. Efforts and investigations in process: The assumption that the Police has and intends to do nothing is specious. The Police and the local Banjars are very concerned and currently there are investigations taking place that could be undermined by a demonstration. Actions being taken by Police are understandably kept confidential during an ongoing investigation. Crimes of this nature are difficult to solve and prosecute because evidence is often vague and unverifiable. Law enforcement need time to gather evidence that meets the standards for successful prosecution. Simply because you are unaware of current Police efforts does not mean they do not exist. By default a demonstration like this is has the potential to alienate the very people [Police, Banjars, Government officials etc] by implying that they are not doing anything to combat. This is simply not the case.5. Alternatives: Quietly gather and pass on specific and factual information about the perpetrators that can assist the Police to make an arrest and that meets evidentiary standards for the Prosecutors office to proceed. Note: If this is gang related those who have useful information will be more likely to come forward in a confidential environment than if this becomes a public free-for-all; the potential for which with a demonstration being highCombine your efforts with groups already working on this issue and who are long term permanent residents with perhaps a better understanding of how things work in Indonesia and in Bali. Make your first step be one of cooperation and communication with Law Enforcement in an organised private environment. Work behind the scenes in a polite, media and publicity free environment with the Police and the local Banjars. Your efforts are truly appreciated however I humbly ask based on the above that you reconsider this initiative.[/FONT][/COLOR]
Joe Writeson
...and this where I really miss the 'like' button as Balibule has obviously researched his response then made a valid and valuable contribution to the forum. so ...[SIZE=5][/SIZE]LIKE
balibule
yes well, I copied / pasted from the facebook page. That response was written by the lady with the funny hat. I don't have a funny hat.
Joe Writeson
I realised that BB but you took the trouble to look for it and reposted ... top actionPS I have spare funny hats and even more funny heads...
samsiam
yes well, I copied / pasted from the facebook page. That response was written by the lady with the funny hat. I don't have a funny hat.[/QUOTE]Nevertheless...don't underestimate the power of..... 'I think she's got a point'.
balibule
Another clever thing someone else said is to report the crimes to your embassy. If all crimes get reported then the embassy / country might create a travel warning for Bali. Travel warnings hurt tourism and the local government will eventually have to pull their hands out of their pockets.
Joe Writeson
...at the risk of being accused of 'always trying to get the last word in' I have to ask samsiam what the fuck are you on about? ...oh and that goes for the alice' post as well..
modelt1826
Travel warnings can be double edged and the worst one is travel insurance can becomes void as if our dear travel insurance companies need excuses not to payout
samsiam
^^... :icon_lol::icon_lol:When a writer has to use the 'f' word....well[I][SIZE=1]samsiam likes this[/SIZE][/I]
Rangi
Well the page has only been up around 24 hours and more than 300 people are saying they are going. I hopefully there will be some good entertainment. I am looking forward to seeing it
Joe Writeson
^^... :icon_lol::icon_lol:When a writer has to use the 'f' word....well[I][SIZE=1]samsiam likes this[/SIZE][/I][/QUOTE]Didn't do DH Lawrence any harm...not that I am in the same league as him...yet
Joe Writeson
Well the page has only been up around 24 hours and more than 300 people are saying they are going. I hopefully there will be some good entertainment. I am looking forward to seeing it[/QUOTE]I have read through the posts and responded to one lady who had grave misgivings about the whole scenario.Exactly Katie, it will also be viewed by some authorities as a smear on their abilities, whether adequate, incompetent, useless or not, and therefore it will not take much to encourage retribution...so all you foreigners that want to protest and rock the boat in a foreign country....make sure you have your passports and personal belongings with as you won't have time to pick them up as you are being deported...and your Embassy won't do a thing as you are contravening civil law by attending or taking part in a rally with anti-Indonesian overtones... if you don't like how things are..go somewhere else!
klaatu
bag snatching is nothing new here.Back in the eighties if caught, the coppers would take you out the back of the station and put a bullet in your head..Of course petty crims didn't like to leave any witnesses behind so be careful what you wish for.
Markit
I've watched this building on FB and in Ubud and frankly I'm not convinced there are that many incidents that are valid. It's more of "oh, I heard about this" and "I saw this" and "my friend had this happen last time she was in Kuta" kind of thing. I've really tried to find out if there are real people having real crimes committed against them (written and asked, that's all) but I have to say I'm not entirely convinced that anything is happening. I may be wrong.
Joe Writeson
Every FB post querying the legality, veracity and voicing opposition is removed.This one about an hour ago[I]What saddens and ultimately annoys me is the number of people posting and proposing support both verbal and physical...have they any idea at all how this will be presented once the local press get their hands on it 'Foreigners set to march on the streets of Indonesia to protest Polis inefficiency' I have news for you all, the local media are constantly on the look out for anything to whip up Pro-Nationalistic frenzy ... and this is before the religious nutters decide they need to make some sort of point as well, this whole thing is set to be a total disaster and there will more than likely be repercussions for all foreigners in Indonesia.This is NOT your country DON NOT tell them how to run it![/I]The organiser states he is here on a tourist visa so doesn't want his name on documents or applications...credibility ZERO[I]We need to get a local permit to do this event. We are looking for a local and a expand with permanent resident that have the time to visit the POLSE to bring a letter that we have to summit before this demonstration do anyone want to volunteer for this? I cant do it I'm a tourist in Bali most be someone with KITAS.[/I]I was then asked point blank 'Ok then what would YOU do about crime in Indonesia?'My response 'Nothing, because there is nothing you can do, so you live with it or move on, I choose to live with it'That post and response has been removed.
klaatu
Has there ever been a public demo in Indonesia that hasn't gotten ugly?
Joe Writeson
Has there ever been a public demo in Indonesia that hasn't gotten ugly?[/QUOTE]Precisely Klaatu and if certain parties want it it ugly then ugly it will be ... friggin doogooders looking for Sainthood all these eejits tripping over each other to sign up need to check the exact wording of their various residence or work documents ... and once again I will point out the 'organiser' is on a TOURIST VISA ... Any expatriate or visitor engaging in civil disturbance or political rhetoric immediately invalidates all residential rights, temporary, permanent or otherwise ...
balibule
Travel warnings can be double edged and the worst one is travel insurance can becomes void as if our dear travel insurance companies need excuses not to payout[/QUOTE]Yes, you are probably right. However, I also believe that the likelihood for the government to take action against criminality will be bigger if there is a travel ban than if there is a demonstration of 300 foreigners (including a whole bunch illegal expats on a tourist visa / I wonder if immigration officers will be there :icon_idea:).
Joe Writeson
Yes, you are probably right. However, I also believe that the likelihood for the government to take action against criminality will be bigger if there is a travel ban than if there is a demonstration of 300 foreigners (including a whole bunch illegal expats on a tourist visa / I wonder if immigration officers will be there :icon_idea:).[/QUOTE]...see balebule this is where we miss the 'like' button but instead of a simple 'like' you now get a longer response[SIZE=4] LIKE[/SIZE]...and the responses to my FB posts on the subject are getting wilder and more insulting by the minute...but no one answers this query...'How many of you claiming you will be there are on tourist visas?' no responsesor this...'If you have a KITAS have you offered your services to Freddy the organiser who does not want to put his name on the application to the Polis to hold a demonstration?' no responses.I will say again, actions such as the one proposed have the potential to affect all of us.
