Fred2
The reason is primarily about buying land in their own name. The Kiwi has many millions of dollars worth of property in Indonesia. He had dual Australian and Kiwi citizenship. He surrendered his Australian passport and citizenship. By retaining his Kiwi citizenship he can still enter Australia so nothing has changed except he can own land in his own name. Due to the normal bureaucratic mix up both Australians have also retained there Australian passports so nothing has changed for them except they could purchase their hotels in their own names.
To be honest I would happily give away my Australian citizenship. That country has nothing to offer me. Look at their ridiculous rules. In my case if I wished to apply for an Aged Pension when I reach 66, I would have to return to Australia and live there for two years. I can not imagine wanting to do that after living out of the country for 21 years.
However they are quite happy to tax me on investments I have there.
The Indonesian government would take there Australian passport & then they go to the Australian embassy & said they lost there passport? I know that to become Indonesian citizens takes more then 2years.
If you are Indonesian & you take a second citizenship you have to fly through different countries to swap passports. :anonymous:
Millions of dollars of property & you get caught you would loose everything. Too scary for me.
The thing about age pension is a hassle, I just fly in & out for work & pay taxes so I'm hoping that paying taxes for more then 30 years will get me my pension?:icon_biggrin:
scout
64.5 years for an Australian aged pension Fred
spicyayam
When I first heard about people changing their citizenship I thought it was pretty strange and wondered why anyone would do it. I have since met a couple of guys that have lived in Indonesia a long time and have done so, and I can now understand their feelings more. It is something I would consider doing some time in the future, but still have a long way to go.
Markit
It used to be that you could renounce your UK citizenship to take up citizenship of any other country and it made not the slightest bit of difference to the UK. Meaning that it was perfect for these types of situations where you need to become a citizen say of Indo but don't really want to give up old Blighty. In Indo you were seen as a legal citizen from their reference out and from the Uk once a citizen always a citizen.
Does anyone know if that situation still is valid re UK law?
I don't really see any danger in this. Why would Indo doubt that you had made the change and how would they go about proving their doubt? Contact the UK foreign office? Not likely with all the data protection laws around, I would have thought.
Lovegrove
Hi Scout, my understanding was in 2013, aged pension benefits were changing that one had to be 67yrs old - got this from the net? No sure how true it is? Have a few choices - if anyone can give advice? I have been with partner for 12 years, living in a de-facto relationship - he is 56yrs, I am 48yrs - should we marry & he apply for retirement KITAS, then me for spouse - do we have to be married for 2 years OR should we just continue with Social Visa - very confused right now???? Any advice would be much appreciated x
davita
I think many expats, particularly those with Indonesian spouses, would accept Indonesian citizenship so long as they could be dual with their original country. Also, many ex-WNI who have been abroad and taken another citizenship would follow. That is the issue!
I'm from UK originally and contributed to the UK National Insurance scheme until I was 65. After retiring from an aviation career, mostly living in Hong Kong, I immigrated with my Indonesian wife to Canada, where we both became Canadian citizens.
I retained my UK citizenship and all pensions whilst my wife lost her Indonesian passport and rights.
We now live the rest of our retirement in Bali/Jakarta where she is seen as a foreigner....I sponsor her to live in Indonesia...how is that for irony!
Many enlightened countries, such as the Philippines, have seen an economic advantage to interest pre-citizens who went abroad to seek their fortune to return, and bring their money, by offering retirement dual-nationality. I understand this move has been win-win.
Since May 2011 a law was passed in RI to allow ex-WNI to get an instant Kitap but it has still not been ratified.
Hopefully, the RI Government will look into Immigration reform, at least for retired people. They already reformed for children of mixed-nationality parents, which was a good first step.
Markit
Dear Lovegrove,
Personally I think you aught to be banned immediately from the forum for lowering the moral level of discourse.
You are obviously a shameless hussy and with your disgustingly immoral partner will burn in hell.
Have a nice day:icon_e_biggrin:
Lovegrove
Markit wroteDear Lovegrove,
Personally I think you aught to be banned immediately from the forum for lowering the moral level of discourse.
You are obviously a shameless hussy and with your disgustingly immoral partner will burn in hell.
Have a nice day:icon_e_biggrin:
Morning to you too Markit :cheerful:
Glad to hear you have had your dose of morality medicine since we last spoke......very funny xx
davita
Markit wroteIt used to be that you could renounce your UK citizenship to take up citizenship of any other country and it made not the slightest bit of difference to the UK.
. Meaning that it was perfect for these types of situations where you need to become a citizen say of Indo but don't really want to give up old Blighty. In Indo you were seen as a legal citizen from their reference out and from the Uk once a citizen always a citizen.
Does anyone know if that situation still is valid re UK law?
I don't really see any danger in this. Why would Indo doubt that you had made the change and how would they go about proving their doubt? Contact the UK foreign office? Not likely with all the data protection laws around, I would have thought.
The UK/Canada Immigration are not concerned as they permit Dual Nationality. In Indonesia, once the expat-applicant is approved to become an Indonesian the other passport has to be handed to its respective Embassy. You need a receipt as evidence, otherwise they will not issue the Indonesian Passport.
There are some ex-WNI's who have sheltered their WNI rights by deception and have dual-Nationality but, according to Indonesian Law, this is illegal.
If later, the expat changes his mind and wants his original passport back, it can be retrieved
Mark
davita wroteIn Indonesia, once the expat-applicant is approved to become an Indonesian the other passport has to be handed to its respective Embassy. You need a receipt as evidence, otherwise they will not issue the Indonesian Passport...If later, the expat changes his mind and wants his original passport back, it can be retrieved
This seems a bit odd, as a passport is a travel document and evidence of citizenship, but it is not the same as a certificate of citizenship. What's to stop an expat who gives up his passport to get Indonesian citizenship going straight back to his former country's embassy and applying for a new one? The answer is nothing. That's why I believe that Indonesia requires that a prospective new citizen provide evidence of 'loss of nationality' from their former country. This is a much more serious piece of paper than a passport. Having said that, some countries (the UK for example, but not the US) do allow a former citizen to reclaim their nationality if they later change their mind.
Also, I know of many cases of Indonesian citizens (mostly women married to foreigners) who acquire citizenship of their spouse's country without giving up their Indonesian passport. This is a bit risky as pointed out above and certainly illegal under Indonesian law.
Fred2
I think you can buy an Australian citizenship for $1 but Indonesia takes its time & make sure you really want to be a citizen. So if you are Australian citizen & give it up to become a Indonesian citizen do you need a visa to go to Australia? I find it very hard as I would never give up my Citizenship & would never ask my wife to give it up. The soccer player that gave up he's citizenship to became a Indonesian national player, He would never have became a national player in his own country, I think his citizenship was pushed through pretty quick (6 months) & he's still a shit player.
Thevoice
fred2, very true.... , perhaps that is why he gave up his citizenship in his country cause he cant be a national player nor a good indonesian soccer player hahaha
Markit
Out o idle curiosity does anyone know how to become an Indonesian citizen (other than being born here)?
gilbert de jong
Markit wroteOut o idle curiosity does anyone know how to become an Indonesian citizen (other than being born here)?
from kitas (2years) to kitap (5years) and then one can apply for citizenship
Markit
Thanks Gil.
Teddybear
Gday, i would be interested to hear if Indonesia will recognise dual citizens in the future or within the next 18 years, that's when my son chooses which way he will jump, at the moment if they don't i think he should remain a Indonesian citizen and a permanent resident in OZ, T
davita
It's unlikely that Indonesia will permit dual citizenship anytime soon...but who knows, they keep talking about it but they believe in NATO...No Action Talk Only.
Meanwhile, I'm sure you're aware that your son can be a dual Indonesian/Australian citizen until age 21....if you and his mother are of mixed Indonesian/Australian citizenship.
DenpasarHouse
Here's a related article:
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/09/08/despite-jokowis-aspirations-dual-citizenship-not-on-horizon.html
Basically, there was talk of allowing ex-WNI to become dual citizens to encourage them to return home and invest in Indonesia but they scrapped any plans for that after making a specific diaspora visa.
Markit
What is "a specific diaspora visa"?
Teddybear
Gday, my wife is a permanent resident only in Oz , Javanese/Ambon so we decided that its best for my wife to not be a OZ citizen , so she can still own property there and live, isn't it great about the prenup decision , unconstitutional, many mixed couples are now smiling just the dual citizenship review to come , we live in hope , T
