Does this plan stand up to scrutiny

tenerife

Hi, Reformed lurker here and first posting to a very useful forum. I appreciate all the information shared publically by the members. It has been helpful in planning for my imminent retirement to Bali. By way of background I lived before in Bali in the early 90s (Legian area) and have returned periodically in the interim - most recently in 2015 when I stayed in the Ubud area and explored Amed and also the NW region. I am ready to move now but before pulling the trigger I wonder could you offer any views on my planning below. Visas This is my major concern since I am one year younger than the 55 yr threshold for the retirement kitas. That being the case I need a bridgeing mechanism until I can secure the retirement kitas next year. The Sosbud option would seem the sensible one (I await a response from IDE?) given that two back to back sosbuds would only necessitate one journey to Singapore during a twelve month period. But most importantly I cannot risk any visa breach since it would jeopardise my long term plans. I understand that repeat sosbuders are now receiving greater scrutiny so no certainty is possible on this matter. Is this so? But waiting another year is not an option I want to contemplate either. Location choices One of the great aspects of Bali is the multitude of options from coastal to mountainous to urban to rural. I dislike the steamy climate on the coast but against this is the pleasure of daily swims in the sea. Because of currrents and sorry to say...pollution and litter...I have ruled out the Canggu to Kuta strip. I could base myself around Jimbaran or further south to access by bike the southern Bukit swimmable beaches. I looked at Sanur but it was incredibly crowded on the few days I visited. Perhaps it was a weekend or holiday? Amed has super clean waters but is anchorite sleepy and isolated. But nice people. Lovina did not cut it for me. The micro climate in the hills such as as those north of Ubud was perfect when I was there (April) with amazing natural light and a bonus of few mozzies. Plus I love zipping around the back roads to the north of Ubud by motorbike playing cat and mouse with the cops and kicking the occasional snarly dog. Apart from the painting art culture in Ubud itself (which is well worth exploring) I thought the scene in the town itself was cliquey. I happened by chance across a large ceremony funeral for a local bigwig and while the locals are friendly enough I sensed they are fed up with all the hordes of gaping tourists. Budgets The 18 grand US required for the KITAS is accurate enough for a modest vice free retiree life from my own calculations on the ground in 2015. Given my habits I estimate in US dollars as follows: 6000 pa for accommodation as per the visa requirement although knowing Bali this could be less under the table 12000 pa for all everday expenses....assuming moderate alcohol consumption and (lol) zero local wimmin. 1500 for house help 3000 for medivac insurance to send my corpse to Singapore for the benefit of science 2500 for a regional flight when island fever gets to much Total; 25 grand First year complications Given my nature I hate the uncertainty of the bridging year without a Kitas which will lead to complications re banking, motorbike purchase, licences, health insurance and a reluctance to pay upfront rent for an extended period. But maybe I over analyse....afterall this is Bali. Any input no matter how cutting would be appreciated Txs

Markit

tenerife wroteHi, Reformed lurker here and first posting to a very useful forum. I appreciate all the information shared publically by the members. It has been helpful in planning for my imminent retirement to Bali. By way of background I lived before in Bali in the early 90s (Legian area) and have returned periodically in the interim - most recently in 2015 when I stayed in the Ubud area and explored Amed and also the NW region. I am ready to move now but before pulling the trigger I wonder could you offer any views on my planning below. [COLOR=#ff0000]Well done son![/COLOR] Visas This is my major concern since I am one year younger than the 55 yr threshold for the retirement kitas. That being the case I need a bridgeing mechanism until I can secure the retirement kitas next year. The Sosbud option would seem the sensible one (I await a response from IDE?) given that two back to back sosbuds would only necessitate one journey to Singapore during a twelve month period. But most importantly I cannot risk any visa breach since it would jeopardise my long term plans. I understand that repeat sosbuders are now receiving greater scrutiny so no certainty is possible on this matter. Is this so? But waiting another year is not an option I want to contemplate either. [COLOR=#ff0000]Depending upon where you are coming from. If UK the Indo embassy used to be pretty good with Social visas, Oz, less so. Would then advise come here on VOA and then make a day jaunt to get your Social from SNG - some reported problems but seem due largely to user stupidity. [/COLOR] Location choices One of the great aspects of Bali is the multitude of options from coastal to mountainous to urban to rural. I dislike the steamy climate on the coast but against this is the pleasure of daily swims in the sea. [COLOR=#ff0000]Daily sea swims will pale fairly quickly after arrival so think "pool". [/COLOR][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR] Because of currrents and sorry to say...pollution and litter...I have ruled out the Canggu to Kuta strip. [COLOR=#ff0000]Couldn't agree more - fecking horrible place - forget the entire south of the island[/COLOR] I could base myself around Jimbaran or further south to access by bike the southern Bukit swimmable beaches.[COLOR=#ff0000]see above[/COLOR] I looked at Sanur but it was incredibly crowded on the few days I visited.[COLOR=#ff0000]Sanur can get busy but usually only on the main drags and if you like male companionship Sanur is full of Viagra snorting, 60ish physical and mental wrecks out for a good time expats.[/COLOR] Perhaps it was a weekend or holiday? Amed has super clean waters but is anchorite sleepy and isolated. But nice people. Lovina did not cut it for me. The micro climate in the hills such as as those north of Ubud was perfect when I was there (April) with amazing natural light and a bonus of few mozzies. Plus I love zipping around the back roads to the north of Ubud by motorbike playing cat and mouse with the cops and kicking the occasional snarly dog. Apart from the painting art culture in Ubud itself (which is well worth exploring) I thought the scene in the town itself was cliquey. I happened by chance across a large ceremony funeral for a local bigwig and while the locals are friendly enough I sensed they are fed up with all the hordes of gaping tourists. [COLOR=#ff0000]Agreed and well spotted - the Ubudies are a friendly bunch still but you can tell they are getting a little short with their own success and there is another element that seems to be moving in from down south, from another island beginning with "J", that are not adding anything positive to the mix. Ubud can be fun once you settle in and get to know the way around the Tourist bits. [/COLOR] Budgets [COLOR=#ff0000]US or Oz $? makes a 30% difference[/COLOR] The 18 grand US required for the KITAS is accurate enough for a modest vice free retiree life from my own calculations on the ground in 2015. Given my habits I estimate in US dollars as follows: 6000 pa for accommodation as per the visa requirement although knowing Bali this could be less under the table [COLOR=#ff0000]Don't phaff around with doing the visa stuff yourself just contact my guy (Tude on +62 81999100490 tell him "hi" from Mark - I don't get FA, just to keep them clear that we also talk, K?) [/COLOR] 12000 pa for all everday expenses....assuming moderate alcohol consumption and (lol) zero local wimmin. [COLOR=#ff0000]Then skip living in Sanur[/COLOR] 1500 for house help [COLOR=#ff0000]Depends upon how often/long/much to do but generally if you have someone come in to do the cleaning a couple of times a week you can get it for about 50k/day or if you want full time help every day with cooking and shopping figure around 2 million/month[/COLOR] 3000 for medivac insurance to send my corpse to Singapore for the benefit of science 2500 for a regional flight when island fever gets to much Total; 25 grand First year complications Given my nature I hate the uncertainty of the bridging year without a Kitas which will lead to complications re banking, motorbike purchase, licences, health insurance and a reluctance to pay upfront rent for an extended period. But maybe I over analyse....afterall this is Bali.[COLOR=#ff0000]Get here first and worry about all that stuff then.[/COLOR] Any input no matter how cutting would be appreciated Txs

Welcome!

davita

Hi tenerife and welcome. You seem to have a very good grasp of how to settle yourself to live in Bali and certainly done plenty research. I know of one Australian who has managed to get a retirement KITAS, thru' his agent, and he isn't yet 55. I suggest you investigate agents to see if it can be done. Meanwhile, I'll ask this guy who his agent is, and how it was achieved, and get back.,

Steve Rossell

G'day tenerife. After living in Bali for the last 16 months I feel that I can pass on some of my experience with some of your questions. Questions that are very similar to mine when I first joined this forum and was helped enormously by forum expat members before the move. Visa. While there have been reports of a crackdown on 'sosbud' visa's I haven't heard of anyone directly affected. My understanding is that the crackdown is more to do with the practice of circumventing the legal requirements and 'the spirit of the visa i.e. The sponsor of your social/cultural (sosbud) visa is responsible for your actions/debts and can fiscally under-write your stay here in Indonesia. Clearly the pool guy or pembantu could not meet the legal requirements of a sponsor. Another favourite tactic is to get an agent to sort it all for you but once again I would suggest that an agent 'sponsor' would be unable to vouch-safe for the many clients that they may have on their roster, monetarily or otherwise. I applied for a sosbud from Australia I did so with the sponsorship of a reputable and established language school in Ubud where I had applied to study Bahasa Indonesia and pre-paid for my first of several courses that I wanted to undertake. Several months prior to this application I had been to this school to check it out and satisfy myself that they were in fact legit and also to scope out possible accommodation that was not too far from the school. I was satisfied that my visa fit not only the legal requirements but also the 'spirit' of the concept of social/cultural exchange. This approach had the added benefit of peace of mind for me. I didn't have to worry about looking over my shoulder all the time or being open to the possibility of an agent/sponsor getting busted. After 6 months I re-applied for my sosbud and once again had my language school formally sponsor me. I did the Singapore run with no problems. Once I was sure that I wanted to stay in Bali for the foreseeable future I decided to apply for the retirement visa that I now hold. I did almost all that was necessary from here in Bali. This visa has the benefit of a "multiple entry" card, meaning that you can come and go from Indonesia as many times as you like without affecting your visa status but to activate the multiple entry card you need to make a trip out of the country and have it issued from an Indo' Embassy or Consulate. I used an agent in Singapore and went about catching up with some friends before returning to Bali as a bona fide "retiree". This visa disallows you working within Indonesia. The first issuance of this visa is for 12 months only, then a re-application is necessary for another 12 months and after that....I'll cross that bridge when I need to :) . Another benefit is that you don't have to go to the cattle grid when going through immigration, you go to the locals only line. Now I have Indo' drivers licences, one for a car and one for a bike. I have an Indonesian bank account. I bought a motorbike but through a very trusted Indonesian friend and I am currently in the process of 'buying' the bike from my friend now that I can legally own it. Location/Budget. These two are fairly co-dependant but as far as budgets go you seem to be well on track if indeed you are happy with a relatively simple life-style but your idea of a simple life-style may differ to mine. When I first arrived to live here I was unsure as to whether it would all work out for me and so I was reluctant to lock in a 12 month (or even 6) lease for accommodation. I struck a deal with my landlord that if I paid monthly, at the going monthly rate, for 10 months and 1/2 the monthly rate for the 11th month then the 12th month was 'free'. i was happy with this arrangement and have since re-negotiated and paid in advance another 12 months for what I would describe as 'studio apartment' but not of a modern western style, on the fringe of downtown Ubud. US$6k per annum gets me an inside bath room and outdoor (undercover) kitchen adjacent to the rice fields that I gaze out over from my kitchen table. Air-con that I rarely use, cable tv that I rarely use, gas and electricity included, access to a large pool overlooking said rice fields, hi-speed fibre-optic internet, pembantu 3 days a week for a bit of cleaning, thus fulfilling another retirement visa requirement and 24 hour security. In short i can say that I could get something less expensive and in fact may do so once my current lease expires but for the time being I don't have to worry about the more mundane aspects of day to day living, e.g. paying electricity bills in advance, re-filling the gas bottle, paying the local banjar for services it provides for the community, monthly payments for a pembantu etc,etc. Anyhoo....I hope this info is helpful to you but it is from my experience to suit my level of comfort only, physically and mentally but there are more ways to skin a cat so also take heed of advice from Markit and davita, both of whom have a lot more experience from living in Bali for a lot longer than I. Good luck tenerife, it's worth all the faffing around and effort.

tenerife

Thanks to all and more specifically: Markit For visa contact name and number and the redeeming words about Ubud town (i was there for just a month so only had a fleeting impression) Davita If such an agent can swing the KITAS this year via his network then it would be perfect Steve Does the lanuguage school you alluded to have a website? I would like to check prices etc.... if you dont mind. Otherwise no big deal. The all-in model you opted for on accommodation is something I see a lot more of on property sites. Presumably they are targetting the retiree market for the convenience it offers. I too would look for the same to avoid all the utility etc headaches as a dazed newbie. I saw a few in Ubud sites but they are coy on the web about pricing.

davita

tenerife wroteIf such an agent can swing the KITAS this year via his network then it would be perfect.

My friend doesn't wish to disclose the agent that managed his retirement visa but he said the age requirement can be obviated. BTW he is a wealthy person so maybe that has some significance.

Mark

Can't answer for Steve but one language school in Ubud that does sponsor social visas for its students is Cinta Bahasa. They have a website.

Steve Rossell

I have found that Cinta Bahasa is one of the more expensive options when it comes to language learning in Bali. I have found that it has been worth every cent. Apart from two teaching venues in Ubud they also run courses in Sanur, Canggu and Denpasar. They even embrace Bitcoin payments.