balibule
Kumpul Coworking Space in Sanur have an upcoming event that will discuss Tax Amnesty or "Sosialisasi Tax Amnesty & Perpajakan Usaha Kecil"
Saturday, 27 August. Sanur. More details on their facebook page at
https://www.facebook.com/events/1744051872513580/
mugwump
Kumpul Coworking Space in Sanur have an upcoming event that will discuss Tax Amnesty or "Sosialisasi Tax Amnesty & Perpajakan Usaha Kecil"
Saturday, 27 August. Sanur. More details on their facebook page at
https://www.facebook.com/events/1744051872513580/
Thanks very much for this reference. It is something we should all be aware of, even though though I can't help but think this may be a "sucker bait" attempt to lure people into the open because of the enormity of research required of the federal government to reveal all property acquired from 1985 t0 the present.
davita
There isn't any need for an owner, or nominee (trustee), to use tax amnesty if the annual property tax has been paid.
The declared object of the tax amnesty is to encourage those companies, or individuals, who have large overseas assets to repatriate them back to Indonesia. The carrot is .....no questions will be asked as to how those assets were obtained in the first place and the tax liability that would have incurred if the income from those assets had been declared.
The law is badly written, and being hastily amended, so it's very confusing and the repatriation, so far, is nowhere near the target. Most of the returned income is from the small property owners within Indonesia...not those overseas funds.
balibule
mugwump wrote I can't help but think this may be a "sucker bait" attempt to lure people into the open
I think that is unlikely. They have bigger fish to fry and these big fish who hide millions of dollars overseas don't need to come to a free event to get consultation. I think this is a genuine info session.
mugwump
By searching the archives I failed to come up with this specific topic. It seems that Indonesian citizens have been offered a tax amnesty on property acquired between 1985 and 2015 that they have not previously declared as taxable, and if they pay up by the end of September 2016 will only have to pay 2% of valuation.
If not declared they must pay a substantial increase after that date. This raises a serious question for trustees apparently since they are the reported owners on documents making them trustee of property held by foreigners.
The name Spicyayam comes to mind, and wonder if he can enlighten the rest of us? Certainly Indonesians with foreign spouses would be included as friends of mine are busy scurrying around during this amnesty period to take advantage of the special 2% rate.
All knowledgable folks are welcome to provide their opinion on this matter that can certainly have implications for many foreigners as well.
Mark
mugwump wroteBy searching the archives I failed to come up with this specific topic. It seems that Indonesian citizens have been offered a tax amnesty on property acquired between 1985 and 2015 that they have not previously declared as taxable, and if they pay up by the end of September 2016 will only have to pay 2% of valuation.
If not declared they must pay a substantial increase after that date. This raises a serious question for trustees apparently since they are the reported owners on documents making them trustee of property held by foreigners.
The name Spicyayam comes to mind, and wonder if he can enlighten the rest of us? Certainly Indonesians with foreign spouses would be included as friends of mine are busy scurrying around during this amnesty period to take advantage of the special 2% rate.
All knowledgable folks are welcome to provide their opinion on this matter that can certainly have implications for many foreigners as well.
Can you be more specific? The Indonesian government already knows who owns what property in the country as the names are in the relevant registries, so what do you mean by 'taxable'? Rental income?
mugwump
It was interesting to read Bali Update today and note that I am not alone in wondering how trustees will fare in this situation, and if they will continue as a device as has been the case in the past?
Mark
Another issue is that the amnesty applies only to Indonesian 'taxpayers' or those who should be based on their residency in Indonesia. This would include all foreigners staying in Indonesia for at least 183 days in a twelve month period, whether on Kitas, Kitap or social visas.
davita
mugwump wroteIt was interesting to read Bali Update today and note that I am not alone in wondering how trustees will fare in this situation, and if they will continue as a device as has been the case in the past?
It will certainly impact those that use nominee gardiners/poolboys who may not have an NPWP. The nominee is required to declare that asset and the taxman will have every right to ask..."how can you own such property but have no taxable income".
I checked with our notary.....If the nominee is a person with an NPWP, and the property is declared and annual property tax paid, that situation becomes moot as the nominee has every right to own such property.
There's around 5-6 villas near me where the owners are from Jakarta and leave their villas empty. Same principle...they are owners who pay taxes and can legally own and, as the villas aren't rented, pay no taxes on this asset except annual property tax.
The 'tax amnesty' wasn't designed for this situation and why there is so much confusion.
spicyayam
[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]Thanks very much for this reference. It is something we should all be aware of, even though though I can't help but think this may be a "sucker bait" attempt to lure people into the open because of the enormity of research required of the federal government to reveal all property acquired from 1985 t0 the present.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
It's not "sucker bait". It seems like they are very serious about this and ignoring it is only going to make the problem much worse (and expensive). It seems they do have this data readily available now.
[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]There isn't any need for an owner, or nominee (trustee), to use tax amnesty if the annual property tax has been paid. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]
It's not the land tax, it some kind of asset tax, that apparently has been law but most people have been ignoring.
[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]It was interesting to read Bali Update today and note that I am not alone in wondering how trustees will fare in this situation, and if they will continue as a device as has been the case in the past?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
If you mean the nominee, then they are required to pay also. If the nominee cannot show how they made the money to buy the property, then they could be in trouble. Showing the "nominee" agreement could suffice for now, but I see a whole can of worms opening up. Failing to pay the tax could result in the government taking over the property, especially in these nominee situations.
[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]If the nominee is a person with an NPWP, and the property is declared and annual property tax paid, that situation becomes moot as the nominee has every right to own such property.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Check with the tax office itself. It could be wishful thinking on the notary's part.
The good news is that the amnesty lasts until the end of September and I wouldn't recommend leaving it to the last day.
davita
It's not the land tax, it some kind of asset tax, that apparently has been law but most people have been ignoring.
That would be something if true but what is this 'asset tax'......please, can you show where this asset tax is referenced.
None of my Indonesian family, who pay their taxes, have heard of a tax on their assets.
There is a requirement to declare the asset....but I've heard no mention of the asset being taxed unless it is generating income.
Could it be hidden in any of the following from Wiki....
"
The relevant eight fundamental taxation laws of Indonesia include:
1. General Provisions and Taxation Procedures Law "Undang-undang Ketentuan Umum dan Tatacara Perpajakan/UUKUTp" Law No. 6/1983, amended by Law no.16/2000;
2. Income Tax Law ("Undang-undang Pajak Penghasilan/UU PPh": Law No.7/1983, amended by Law No. 17/2000;ameded by law No 36/2008
3. Value Added Tax VAT termed 'Goods and Services and Sales Tax on Luxury Goods' ("Undang-undang Pajak Pertambahan Nilai atas Barang dan Jasa dan Pajak 4. Penjualan atas Barang Mewah"/UU PPN/PPn BM ): Law No. 8/1983, amended by Law No. 18/2000;
5. Land Tax and Building Tax ("Undang-undang Pajak Bumi dan Bangunan - UU PBB"): Law No. 12/1985 amended by Law No. 12/1994;
6. Warrant for Tax Collection ("Undang-undang Penagihan Pajak dengan Surat Paksa/UU PPSP") Law No. 19/1997, amended by Law No. 19/2000;
7. Fees for Acquisition of Rights to Lands and Buildings ("Undang-undang Bea Perolehan Hak atas Tanah dan Bangunan/UU BPHTB") Law No. 21/1997 amended by Law No. 20/2000;
7. Tax Court Law ("Undang-undang Pengadilan Pajak/UU PP"): Law No. 14/2002;
8. Stamp Duty ("Undang-undang Bea Meterai/UU BM") in short, Law Number 13 of 1985."
EDIT:
A simplified tax information guide is provided by Deloitte below. It mentions in section 12 what I allude above but no mention of an 'asset tax' as such....
http://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/id/Documents/tax/id-tax-indonesia-individual-tax-guide-2015-noexp.pdf
davita
Spicy....Quote..."My wife was just telling me about what happened with a foreigner here who didn't want to pay the tax, they were threatening to take over his property if he didn't pay. He finally relented." Unqoute.
Can you ask your wife to refer to what tax she means that the foreigner refused to pay...I've googled my eyes out and cannot find any ref. to this asset tax you are talking about.
I agree with you on the 'pool boy' nominee arrangements as it gives the revenue people access to their tax implication.
However, if the 'nominee' has an NPWP and paid taxes on his income, and paid property taxes on the 'nominee' property, but doesn't earn any income from said property...what tax is outstanding?
spicyayam
I can only suggest Googling "Indonesia tax amnesty" for more info. Probably like you, I originally thought this was just aimed at rich Indonesians with assets held offshore, but it seems like this is not the case.
I have no idea about your Indonesian's family situation. My post was more to warn people who have property here using nominee agreements. They would obviously be an easy target for the government to go after. My wife was just telling me about what happened with a foreigner here who didn't want to pay the tax, they were threatening to take over his property if he didn't pay. He finally relented.
When people mentioned using their 'pool boy' in the past for their nominee and how it would look to the government how a poor kid could suddenly have an expensive villa, well it does seem like the time has come that the government is noticing with maybe a view to start doing something about it. The tax office does seem to have the ability to show how many properties and individual owns and obtain details of their bank accounts.
So people have the choice to declare their assets and pay a low percentage or wait and see what happens and potentially face a much bigger bill in the future.
spicyayam
I misunderstood what my wife said earlier. It seems the issue that they are investigating is if an Indonesian owns an expensive villa for example and they have no proof of income to purchase that villa, they need to pay income tax as a percentage of the purchase price of the villa, as though they had earn that income. So it seems they don't care how you earned that money or say a foreigner bought that villa, as long as you pay income tax for the amount the property was purchased for.
So for example, a foreigner uses their pool boy as a nominee. The pool boy has an income of 1,000,000 rupiah a month. The pool boy now has an asset of 1 billion rupiah. Even though he didn't work and earn that money to buy the villa, the tax office is saying he theoretically earned 1 billion rupiah, so they should pay income tax on that amount.
davita
Re: post #14
That makes sense and why I posted in post#8.......Quote "It will certainly impact those that use nominee gardiners/poolboys who may not have an NPWP. The nominee is required to declare that asset and the taxman will have every right to ask..."how can you own such property but have no taxable income".
It will be in that interest that the foreigner gets his nominee to apply for tax amnesty and only pay 2%.
What I cannot see is how that impacts nominees who have jobs, and an NPWP, and pay taxes on their income. It's normal that they can purchase property from their tax-paid income/savings....millions of Indonesians do it all the time. They need to declare the property as an asset on their SPT but there isn't any tax to be paid IMO.... and that of the notary I consulted.
spicyayam
[QUOTE]What I cannot see is how that impacts nominees who have jobs, and an NPWP, and pay taxes on their income. It's normal that they can purchase property from their tax-paid income/savings....millions of Indonesians do it all the time. They need to declare the property as an asset on their SPT but there isn't any tax to be paid IMO.... and that of the notary I consulted.[/QUOTE]
As long as their income can support such a purchase or they can show where the money came from (inheritance, other asset sale) then they shouldn't have a problem.
I am a little surprised that the government is moving in this direction as if they do it properly they are going to uncover a lot of shady dealings, corruption money etc. You have to look at it as a positive step for the country.
Braveheart_shaped_box
balibule wroteI think that is unlikely. They have bigger fish to fry and these big fish who hide millions of dollars overseas don't need to come to a free event to get consultation. I think this is a genuine info session.
Free Unicorn parking?
crosskeyscottage
Not sure if this is the correct place to post this little gem of information, but...
Whilst everyone including the government is mentioning 2 or 3% for the tax amnesty, if you are a 'micro business' company with a turnover of under about 4.8 billion, there is a regulation that allows you to pay .5% instead of 2 or 3%. Not many people know about this but it will be accepted by the tax office in the tax amnesty!
crosskeyscottage
The whole regulations are a nightmare so if you think the info for small companies would be good to post elsewhere for others to see, then good do so. The 2% has indeed finished but still 3% until the end of the year, I am sure you will agree, is better than 10% plus 2% interest per month if you get an inspection.
davita
crosskeyscottage wroteNot sure if this is the correct place to post this little gem of information, but...
Whilst everyone including the government is mentioning 2 or 3% for the tax amnesty, if you are a 'micro business' company with a turnover of under about 4.8 billion, there is a regulation that allows you to pay .5% instead of 2 or 3%. Not many people know about this but it will be accepted by the tax office in the tax amnesty!
You are correct and I could have mentioned that in previous posts but declined as the Tax Amnesty is already confusing and the thread title is "Tax amnesty for Trustees."
But good info as this thread has had little recent activity and it would be useful to keep it current with any new information. Your info is relevant to those having a CV, PT or PT PMA.
btw the amnesty to pay 2% has expired.
