Thread: Building Advise

:oops: I must have been having a blonde moment :oops:

Yes the Amish in Ohio.

Now, thats an very interesting topic, "Ferocious Termites"

I have heard its a big problem. Any suggestions for the best treatment for the ferocious termites. :?:

Welcome Boo –

Sorry Roy I have to take exception to your dismissal of Western building professionals here as painting all as one and quite biased. You recently praised the work of Bert, yes? And he is Balinese, no he is not. And as indicated you’re not a builder or a developer - not an expert. I, on the other hand, have more than 20 years experience as a residential building contractor, along with a design degree from a noted university program. Yes, your arguments may hold water on an individual basis but, I believe, you missed the mark in general.

Anyone doing anything here will want to work with locals whenever possible, of course. Balinese are master craftsmen as builders, absolutely, and at other artistic skills, which is why the international design community has such a love affair with the island.

I will counter with following as to why a Westerner may want work with same on part or all of their project:

1. The Western Design Professional – Pick up any of the many coffee table books on Bali dreamhomes and checkout how many of the featured homes are designed by locals, almost none. Bali is both a birth place and a proving ground for definitive Asia-inspired tropical homes, and this Bali-style movement is and was spearheaded by Westerners. The Bali villa holiday home is a Western concept. And Bali’s most famous practicing landscape designer – Australian. And every villa having inspired another Westerner to want one of their own has most likely involved the same. Every villa built by a westerner has used western input, that of the owner. Your home, Roy, unless you gave your charges zero input, was both designed and developed by a Westerner, you.

My point ought to be plain by now, different wants by different people. While there are many locals obviously skilled in all trades, talented Westerners bring something of their own to the table, the most important being the understanding, and thus command, of an intangible subtle nuance of both look and feel. That skill is the one constant shared innately by all talented designers, their gift, but it also a practiced skill developed over time by exposure and use, and influenced by culture. That cultural understanding of wants and needs and how to deliver them is precisely where Indonesians, and or Balinese, understandably often come up short - problems with scale and proportion (countertops that hit your knees!) and the over use of applied decoration are just a couple of common problems.

To advocate dismissal of Western professionals in a field of practice they developed – the design of the tropical dreamhome - is questionable at best.


2. The Western Building Contractor – Cost more, of course! Get different, and, more importantly, what you need, you should. Contractors the world over are often lumped in with lawyers when it comes to reputation, but to argue that a Bule builder will not deliver the goods is, again, a rather broad paint stroke. Understanding the clients needs and wants and then being their advocate on the myriad issues of specifications, material selection, quality control and overall supervision is what any good builder should do, and also where Westerners have their unique input and influence. Again, Westerners spearheaded international building standards on the island, and those desired by the same when building their dream villa. Simply as a matter of economics locals have forever been focused on cost alone as opposed to practicing a cost/benefit approach, and it shows. For example, the beautiful little home I rent here in Batu Belig is only 10 years old, but sadly it looks as if it were 100. Massive settlement cracks are the result of a foundation of soft limestone and mortar sans any concrete piers, sporting floor/wall beams undersized and under reinforced, all, most likely, depending on sand with high soil content. Had the owner, my friend, shelled out what at the time may have been a few more $ this home would appear as new, now its value falls everyday.

To many lay-persons construction details are an unknown, how do they know when or where to accept this or that, the answer is they are often unqualified to represent themselves on-site and don’t have any official building inspector representing them. Also, if the client is unable to be on-site all the time, communication issues may arise that may best be served by Western representation. And as far as a Bule contractor paying more for materials, that should not be an issue if he or she knows their way through the woods.

Unless Westerners desiring to build a villa here are well versed in matters of design, construction, local practice, and they speak the language, I would highly recommend the use of Western professionals, if only to consult with once or on a as needed basis. Too often Bules come here then blinded by the comparatively low cost of building act carelessly as their own architect/construction manager and end up with home proudly displaying poor planning and execution. I, for one, will compare my home, soul for soul, with any other, for that is what I have for years strived to impart in all I create. In addition, I consciously make efforts to utilize thoughtful design, material, and technique as to ensure a home of enduring good taste and value

The Balinese are masters of design and construction, historically for themselves, and those Westerners practicing here and worth their weight duly respect them. And certainly after years of working in concert with the West, local design and construction practices have been influenced accordingly. But in short, is it not questionable advice to encourage others to outright dismiss the very people who invented, and continue to refine, exactly what it is they desire.

Your home, Roy, unless you gave your charges zero input, was both designed and developed by a Westerner, you.

DCC, I'd like to be able to take credit for designing and developing both of our houses and our gallery, The Mood Studio in Kedewatan, but I can't. The credit for all of that goes to my brother in law, I Wayan Tagel a very highly regarded Balinese architect, interior designer and builder as well as a highly accomplished painter and scultptor.

He was educated and degreed at both ITB in Bandung as well as ASRI in Yogyakarta. After his work for the Amandari resort in Sayan he was given credit for co-founding a school of architecture known as the Balinese International School, as he draws some inspiration for his designs from other international styles and merges them into the classic Balinese style.

I agree with the concept of “to each his own” and I understand fully the idea that many folks who chose to build in Bali will want to work with a foreign designer/architect/builder/contractor, whatever. I am not such a person. As I already said, for me, I can tell a Western developed project the moment I walk into it. Most of those houses feel to me not a bit different than many of the resort hotels here...no spirit, and no soul. As an avid collector of art all my life, I have always demanded to live in a home which itself is a work of art. I am very fortunate that my wife’s sister just happens to be married to Wayan Tagel. It seems, as with many talented Balinese artists, that everything he touches becomes art...and his building projects are no exception.

As with all manner of art appreciation, it all boils down to a matter of taste.
And with taste, there is no accounting.

Really interesting posts here. And building in Bali is an exciting thing to consider.

We are also caught in the conundrum of Balinese V Western builder. We had been thinking that a Western builder would have more understanding about what a Western home owner actually wants. But at this stage we are pretty sure that we have a fairly clear idea of what we want, and need help with materials and logistics. The Balinese builder we have spoken to has been doing the Western Villa development projects anyway, and we are confident of getting western standard construction, hopefully with Balinese flair.

Regardless, we will be present during the construction period. Here in Australia the builders we have used have stuffed up things, mostly by not looking at/respecting the plans. But the contracts here do give good recourse, and I'm not sure if you'd get the same in Bali.

Wish you the best Bite. Guess your like the other 99.9 percent of us without the benifit of an architect/builder bother-in-law.

You raise an important issue - failure by the builder to perform, either in a minor or, God forbid, a major way (not neccessarily a matter of Nationality, eh!). But the owner's ability to enforce performance or avenues of recouse are close to non existant here, requiring contracts to be based on trust. So whoever you contract with you should feel comfortable with them and be sure of the same from their previous clients or work.

If you are not well versed in technique you may consider hiring an assistant to help you supervise - a Bule, Balinese, Indonesian, whoever. As a contractor, I have a site manager working on my behalf and sub the labor out, prinipally to one crew. I know what I want and how to achieve it from my Western experience (although I am pretty well versed in local ways), my manager helps us work it out. Interestingly, my crew has not built to the standards I employ but was chosen because, despite the modest nature of his previous houses, his craftsmanship was superior (as in excellent) to others I considered, and that speaks volumes about someones intent. The result is that each time I visit my current project I leave wearing a smile of satisfaction. Problems? A few of course, but as craftsman myself I cant help but share in the pride that is evident everything they do.

But the owner's ability to enforce performance or avenues of recouse are close to non existant here, requiring contracts to be based on trust. So whoever you contract with you should feel comfortable with them and be sure of the same from their previous clients or work.

DCC raises a VERY good point. The fact is, if you are western, and without an Indonesian partner or spouse, then your legal recourse against another westerner is “slim to none” in the various Balinese regency courts. Bules screwing other bules is not of much interest here.

On the other hand, if you’ve been “screwed” by a western builder or contractor, and you ARE either married, or in partnership with an Indonesian, you likely could make matters (legal and otherwise) VERY difficult for that westerner.

For me, the best scenario is being married, or in partnership with an Indonesian, when some form of restitution for violation of contract with another Indonesian is needed. There, the courts can be most useful, but in all likelihood, your dispute would never reach the courts, as over hundreds of cups of coffee, and calm discussion, mutual resolution would be achieved.

Good point Roy! PS - I was afraid to use th "S" word :)