Thread: Recommended Real Estate Notaris and Attorneys in Buleleng?

Greetings all,

I think my post topic is pretty clear, and would appreciate any recommendations you folks can make. Before posting, I searched the forum archives and found no specific information about my particular topic, though there were a couple of somewhat vague references, one being to:

Austrindo: Mr. Peter Johnson

and of course, I have checked out the "Bali Lawyers" link at the bottom of every forum page. As I am focusing on finding recommended attorneys/notaris in Buleleng Regency, the latter two do not seem suitable, please correct me if I am mistaken.

The above said, here is a bit of info on why I am seeking property notaris and attorneys in Buleleng Regency:

You have all heard it a dozens of times, but here it is once more: I am seriously considering investment in a villa/house on the north coast of Bali, with and eye to moving there in the medium-near future (within 5 years). I have been living in Taiwan for the past 16 years, and have vacationed on Bali several times (I know what you are all thinking). It had never occurred to me to buy property in Bali as I am far more familiar with China and was considering a house in Kunming, city of eternal spring! Then some of my Taiwanese friends mentioned that they had bought villas in Bali (Seminyak and Kerobokan) and I started looking into it, and have spent the better part of the last six months checking into property investment in Bali, via the web. Please do not mistake my use of the work "investment" for "exploitation"...I consider a house/villa an investment as it should gain value not only monetarily, but as a personal space for me.

Of course, this forum has served as a wealth of information. I have learned much, but know that the journey has only begun. I have narrowed my location interest to the north coast and know pretty much what I am looking for in terms of property style, cost and location. I am all confirmed for a visit to Bali in early February for the sole purpose of viewing properties and getting a feel for what the north is like, and whether it fits my preconceived expectations. I specifically chose to come in February because it is low season and the weather is supposed to be as bad as it gets throughout the year, as I hope to see Bali without rose colored lenses.

I want to add that I have read all the posts I could find specific to moving to Bali or investing in real estate in Bali and appreciate much of the very candid opinions and advice that forum members have presented. I am not in anyway coming intent to make a purchase, though I do hope I will like what I find, and if so, coming back to finalize the deal is easy enough. The deal itself is what has me concerned and that is why I am hoping that you folks can offer up some extremely competent and highly recommended notaris and attorneys to assure me the greatest security possible in purchasing a property through a name holder.

Looking forward to hearing your recommendations, comments or questions.

Cheers.

The road is long but not hard

Firstly welcome to the Forum Rider and may your stay be long.

Jonno has been my attorney for some 5 years now. And in his words “Expect things to in Indonesia to take a long time” Fax dated somewhere 2003 or there abouts.

As Bert says “Notaries are bound by region” – but attorneys are not. We did some preliminary investigation on PJ and found that he was pretty spot on with his advice in most areas although we have recently discovered that there is more to him than meets the eye. A PM might be required to go further here if you get my drift.

The question, as Peter posed, was what are your overall intentions. And I think your intentions are the same as ours. To have a place to be to enjoy this wonderful country and not go for the quid in whatever biz you are currently involved in or 1 that you intending to establish.

If it is the latter then make sure your biz plan / start up – development / capital is well and truly covered cos I can give you War and Peace on the disasters I have seen others encounter.

I recently had the pleasure of wining and dining with one of Bali’s biggest expat operators on several occasions re villas big and small places to stay (1K per night) and the news I got was it’s going backward post Bali bomb No 1 . This guy unloaded 28 sizable investments in 1 swoop. Just to keep on top of things.

Mind you he still maintains 60 staff rotating on 8 hour shifts not including 9 drivers and army of Satpam … and this is just for his shack and there are only 2 people living in this place. It’s pretty spectacular and very very very comfortable. I could go on.

Good idea Rider to visit in Feb as you will see Bali at its worst. But then again we are talking 9 days sunny 1 day rain instead of 10 perfect days in row. Jan 1 and 2 2007 were without question the worst days I have ever seen for driving rain and constant shit weather. We are talking rain coming sideways. Trying to negotiate the bypass on two wheels during this event took a great amount of courage and sizable amount of skill I can tell you. But then the sun came out and … hey .. We’re cooking.

Good luck Rider – Jono has been my best bet so far in a country full of corruption and uncertainty. But guys like Roy (he’ll’ be back) Bert Phil and others are far more qualified than I to give you advice. I just wanted to give you a small punter’s point of view.

Happy days.

Dash

Hi Bert and Dasha,

Thank you both for your replies.

Bert: I would only be considering properties in Belelung Regency, and so am seeking reliable notaris in that region only...I suppose narrowing it down to the Lovina area or Singaraja makes sense as those are central enough to be able to cover areas to the east and west reasonably conveniently. I note that both you and Dasha have recommendations, but like many posts I have reviewed that require specific info (i.e. full name, contact details, etc.) such info is not included...please forgive my ignorance, but is it verboten to include such information in a public post? Does this type of information need to be PM'd or emailed? I am, of course, open to the latter, but would think that as an archive of information for others seeking same or similar details it would need to be accessible by someone else who views this forum.

Dasha: Thanks for the welcome. I get your drift, (nudge, nudge, wink wink) and will PM you shortly, if you do not mind, and inquire further about your experience with your current attorney.

I was aware about notaris being bound by region, but did not know that attorneys are not...that may be a plus, as perhaps (and I am grasping here) an attorney from the Denpasar area would be more experienced/more "professional" and aggressive when and if my arse/investment needs a champion, or better yet, in setting up ironclad agreements/contracts to begin with.

PETER? I did not/do not see any post by Peter...I only see Bert's and yours. Was it deleted/removed?

From what you said about Peter's mystery post, it seems like he was wondering if I am intending on establishing a business in Bali...correct? I do not have any such intention at this moment. I am not planning on opening a resort or such if that is the question, I just want to find a villa/house that I would love to make my own, and when I am not living there, can be readily rented/let (but then, I think everyone who is not making a permanent move to Bali, would want the same no?). As I said in my original post, I believe that if I can find the property I want, making an eventual move to Bali would be very likely...I desire to be based in the S.E. Asia region and need to be less than a 7 hour flights distance to HK/China.

Please do go on about your friends "shack"....sounds interesting, though I am far more conservative in my needs and expectations, and main reason I am looking only in Belelung is that it seems "remote" and less touristed, very much what I want personally. And implying that were I to be lucky enough to find a place to buy and rent it when I am not there myself, it would be a different type of tourist that would be interested in such a more (relatively) secluded rental. I do not want to categorize people, but find in trying to explain this I must say that I would want rentors/renters (sp?) not to be wild and crazy college kids (I was one myself not too long ago). I would want people who are seeking a peaceful and serene vacation spot, what I think many come to Bali for to begin with.

Thanks for the thumbs up on coming in Feb. Exactly as you said, I am coming to see "Bali at its worst", and the way you explained it is what I expect to find...if that is the worst, I can certainly bite my lip and live with it! When you say 2 wheels, do you mean bicycle or motorscooter? I have made arrangements for a scooter, and plan to travel along the north coast extensively. But, depending on what I find this trip, I expect to make a bike tour of Bali too. I live through several typhoons a year here in Taiwan, and whether on bike or scooter (or even in a car) can appreciate what you must have gone through in the downpour you mentioned...what a blessing to have it stop in an hour or so, here its days on end!

I note that Roy is on "sabbatical", and wish him well in his quest, but look forward to have him return and add to what this forum is all about. I also look forward to hearing more on my inquiry from Bert, Phil and anyone else that has suggestions.

I appreciate the "punter's" point of view, as that is where I am coming from myself, and I am sure our shared experiences as punters can be quite enlightening for everyone...I do not doubt at all that many "old timers" have forgotten how they looked at things differently when they first encountered Bali.....having been in Taiwan 16 years, I am somewhat an "old timer" here, and often marvel when a newcomer sees things that to them are fresh and new (and to me have become blase and boring).

Finally, back to the topic at hand, if you or anyone can give me specifics (Name, contact details) on reliable notaris in Belelung (Lovina or Singaraja area) and reliable and highly competent attorneys with experience in foreigners buying property in Bali, please do so. PM me or email me if it is more "appropriate/convenient"... riderintaiwan at yahoo dot com

Cheers

Hi Bert,

Yeah, Farida's full name, address and preferably a contact phone number/email would be great, whenever you can. Once I get some more info on this topic, and before my trip to Bali, I will contact likely candidates to set up appointments during my visit.

Noted about Peter.

Cheers.

Gedday again Rider

Sorry to put you off the track with “Peter”

“Peter” is Peter Johnson.

And my point was what he initially asked me in late 2001 early 2002. “What are your purposes for wanting to build a villa in Bali? Is it to make money by establishing and renting/leasing a or are you intending it for personal use”

At the time he pulled out what I term “The Horror File”. Sad stories of people with well intended ideas for setting up shop in Indonesia (in the villa rental biz) and coming a gutser pretty quick smart, or a eventually a bit further down the track. As the foundation for the whole scheme was built on an agreement with what the locals documented on what looks like “The real thing” but was in fact just a piece of paper with GPS settings indicating the whereabouts of lamppost a tree a stone monument and a track corner.

Be sure to have your attorney arrange all documentation and have a professional surveyor carry out the land position. PJ’s office, Austrindo do this well in my opinion.

For your own information we purchased 20 are of beach front property and have recently discovered we need the other 60 behind us to comply with the 100 meter set back rule. Fortunately we are in a position to do this as our Nominee had the nouse to purchase and secure the land 2 years ago at a bargain basement price. With the Americans buying up huge chunks of land on the Island beside ours, land prices have skyrocketed.

And as I mentioned earlier “Things take a long time in Bali”. You will probably find, as I did, the Certificate (It’s spelt differently on the notice) did not get into my hands for nearly 2 years. It would be interesting to hear other experiences from punters in the same situation on this forum.

With regard to this guy’s shack…. I was able to obtain a 100 plus image shoot whilst sipping Bintangs on a guided tour with his staff. To divulge the location / show images etc I would definitely need his permission as he was a good bloke that made me privy to his private world. Maybe sometime later Rider when we eventually hook up face to face aye?

The mode of transport was in fact a broken down surf board carrying Honda 90. I always choose these “Luxurious” vehicles whenever in Bali. They are very safe and can be left on the side of the road when they breakdown and another can be obtained instantly to continue the journey. Always have the owners mobile No’ to send a “Tow Truck” and the reddies to pay his expenses accordingly.

Finally my notaris is in Lombok so I can’t help you there. Bert’s people would probably be your best port of call or maybe someone in your desired area who posts on this forum.

Dasha

Hi ya Dasha,

My fault on not catching the whole "Jonno", "JP", & "Peter" connection. Good to know you have a 5 year biz relationship with him. He is at the top of my short list at the moment. Yeah, I have read some horror stories, and that is why if I decide to buy a place in Bali, I want an attorney that can button things down solid.

I am not looking at land actually, looking at a pre-built villa/house, at least that way I can examine first hand the "final" product...I figure that is an additional safety factor....but if beachfront, must be totally legal with all the permits....that 100 meter set back rule seems a little slippery from what I understand, and as Bert has mentioned in reply to another poster in the past, "temporary" structures like a pool or Bale can be built closer to the waterline...not sure how a pool can be considered "temporary" unless they expect that at their* bequest, you can have it removed! (*their being the powers that be)

Lucky for you that that 60 are behind your plot is available. Mind if I ask how you found a nominee that you feel comfortable with?

Those darn Americans...but I must proudly say that I am one myself, but do not intend to be buying in a way to drive any prices up, in fact another reason for my Low season visit is that there should be a dearth of buyers during this period, and should be possible to bargain a bit more convincingly with sellers. (I expect that people will not agree with this, but my experience proves this to be true).

Wow, 2 years to get the land certificate? If I get as far as buying a place, I will get back to you on how long it takes. If other people have similar or differing experiences, it would be great to hear their stories.

Seeing pictures if we someday meet face to face works for me, probably a good thing not to drool over someone else's diggs at the moment anyway.

Honda 90 is most likely going to be my chariot when I am in Bali too...they have already advised, if I break it, I buy it...or something like that...not too worried, have scooted in south Bali a plenty, plus Taiwan has been a great teacher when it comes to cycling and scooting on wild and crazy roads. But thanks again for you very useful reminders.

Noted about your notary being in Lombok, but is your property on Lombok too? Otherwise how does that work with notaries needing to be region specific?

Cheers.

Hmmmm.

In some cases we've got em actually on the beach at our place.

Many ,as you point out in Lovina, are within 5 to 10 Meters of the high tide mark. It’s much the same for us and on Gilli T / Gilli A also. We have recently seen 1 x backpacking hostel get the flick on half a dozen of it’s cottages for being to close.

6 months back I found a link from this site to the Bali Advertiser. There was an archived article that lead me discover this whole topic.

I picked up the ball 3 or so weeks ago with Walter my architect in Kuta who advised that this is the case (100 meter rule) however there is some room for special dispensation.

Given the quality and expense we prefer we don’t want some corrupt local official coming along in 5 or 10 years with his hand out saying “mowe down the house” or pay up!!