Thread: Legal will in bali ?

I understand there have been many posts about owning property in Bali but so far am just more confused after searching & am wondering,is there such a thing as a legal will in Bali?
Reason i ask is that i am looking to purchase a house,due to the fact my wife changed her name after marriage ( wrong advice ) even she cannot hold the certificate in her name.
If we go ahead & purchase the property it will be with a family member as the title holder & then we must have another agreement with the notaris or lawyer to say state that the house belongs to us & are using his name.
I guess its the Western thinking of looking at the worst scenario but the major point is to ensure that the property actually BELONGS to my wife & child in the event something happens to me.
Just trying to get as many answers as possible before i visit a lawyer.
Cheers.

Originally Posted by gilbert de jong

if your notaris is any good, the 'in case I die' clause should be included within the original agreement between the titleholder (familymember) and the actual owner (you).
Your wifes name should also be mentioned in the contract and also needs to sign the contract/agreement along with you and ofcourse the nominee.

a Contract made up by lawyers is not a legal contract, in Indonesia a contract needs to be notarised.
Ofcourse one could have a lawyer look into a contract before signing, just to make sure that in case '???' the contracts covers it.

Also a legal will (Surat Warisan) will become legal once it's notarised.
Hi Gilbert,
When you speak of a will in Indonesia do you mean a revocable will? This is a document that may be changed at the discretion of the person making the will. In common law there is also an irrevocable will that can't be changed by the person making the will. Be sure!

Thanks,
Mugwump
Don (Mugwump)
a Legal will made up by lawyer, is a will but not legal

Originally Posted by mugwump

What is the purpose of having a will drawn that isn't legal? If you really know please tell me as this is confusing?

Unfortunately there was no pre nup before marriage,we followed advice of the church,the sipil office etc & thought we did everything correctly & now the problems arise.
I assumed that a document drawn by a lawyer was stronger than a notaris but it seems that is incorrect.
Still a lot of things to check & fortunately our notaris so far has given good advice & will hopefully find ways to ensure a good outcome.

Originally Posted by gilbert de jong

one can always revoke a will, unless ofcourse the mental condition of the person wanting to revoke is in question.
How to revoke a will...make a new one.

I think Mugwump has missed the difference between the notaris and the lawyer.
Only the first can make a will that is legally binding.

Originally Posted by hermit

I think Mugwump has missed the difference between the notaris and the lawyer.
Only the first can make a will that is legally binding.

Hi To Hermit, Gilbert, and Island Chef,
This discussion reminds me of a few years back when some innocent would seek help, and the expats trying to assist would get create a debate that would end up w/o much helping the original inquiry.
Hermit I understand the role of the attorney and the notaris in their respective capacities, and was trying to unravel Gilbert's usual capable and apt assistance.
The problem was with the wording " a legal will is not a legal will" This is a contradiction of terms despite the fact that he clearly stated that only a notaris could create a document that would be legally binding.
American law is based upon English common law as is undoubtedly the case of all Commonwealth nations. My understanding is that despite the legal morass of Indonesian law it has its origins in Dutch common law which is pretty similar to English common law. In that regard there is such a thing as a revocable will and an irrevocable will.
This distinction isn't nit picking because things such as divorce, and has Gilbert notes
the loss of mental capacity could invalidate a will if that loss occurred prior to being a signatory to a document, or even after signing and the will was irrevocable it could be problematical.
If you have two equal signatories neither has preference in changing surviving recipients or beneficiaries. This is the case with Island Chef and as long as he realizes this consequence so be it. So we go back to my basic question of whether a signatory who as explained in the document has precedence in his/her ability to change survivors. If so then it is deemed a revocable will, otherwise it is irrevocable and he/she lacks the capacity to change beneficiaries/survivors. That I don't know and if someone does I would like to be enlightened.
It is my understanding that if a will is alluded to in the nominee document that said will must be made a part of the nominee agreement. Otherwise the nominee agreement is clouded and could be contestable.
I hope this discussion has helped rather than hindered or further confused things.

Thanks to all for the information & sorry if i have created a hot debate but at the moment i feel like i am chasing my tail but no solution & dont know where to turn other than expats who have been through this drama.
All i want to do is buy a house & make sure that when i pass away,my wife will own the house.
When we married i never imagined or was told that a pre nup,or lack of it would affect us so much in the future,my wife now being unable to own property.
Even we purchase a house & put the deed in a family members name,the notaris told me yesterday that this is not legal even though this is the way expats purchase property in Bali.
It seems a waste of my money to go to a lawyer because documents from a notaris are stronger?
I realize maybe i am jumping ahead thinking about a will before purchasing a house but through prior experience,any decisions made now have many consequences for the future.
Will sit back & take all advice before planning the next step.