User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Seminyak, Bali
    Posts
    69
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    I am currently in the throws of negotiating on some land (land which is not arable before someone jumps in and chastises me for destroying the rice fields and away from Bali in any regard).

    Surprise surprise, the local wants his money yesterday but the land cert has the land designated as "agricultural" (sebidang tanah pertanian). nervous Bule (me) wants to play it safe and go through the whole IMB permit process but the deal will be lost if I delay 3 months and my solicitor is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard at the moment (Indonesian solicitor working for well known Aussie law firm). The Balinese way (mention nothing unless specifically asked about that issue) means I am none the wiser as to what might be involved in getting "tanah pertanian" (land agricultural) rezoned to "tanah Perumahan" (land residential)

    Funnily enough the adjacent land has a dwelling on it (a villa with foreign owner I would think) and there isn't a temple within 150m (although I'm sure BPN could probably invent one :) BUT I'm no fool and I don't think the idea of a precedent holds any water in Indonesian law ("oh. but you gave my neighbour permission to Build")

    I shouldn't be so jaded I guess. It's snowing outside here and soon i'll be back in paradise....

    I would welcome any knowledge/experience (or humourous jibes) about zoning and whether this is a good chance that this can be "re-zoned" (anything is possible in Indonesia I hear you say.......I'd like to try and do it without large payments to government officials)

  2. #2
    Insane Poster Jimbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Al Khobar, Manchester and Makassar
    Posts
    2,526
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    Walk away from the deal and look for something that is less complicated. You also do not mention who will own the land on your behalf.
    Regards Jimbo

  3. #3
    Addicted spicyayam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,926
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    4
    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    I had a similar question before and you can find some information here: Zoning in Bali

    I have been told that you can just change the zoning type when you buy the land.

    Anyway, your notary should be able to provide you with the answer to your question.

    I imagine that most undeveloped land in Bali is zoned agricultural? Maybe Gilbert knows?
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat drinking beer all day.

  4. #4
    Insane Poster gilbert de jong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Panji, Singaraja.
    Posts
    3,162
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    7
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    Quote Originally Posted by spicyayam
    I have been told that you can just change the zoning type when you buy the land.
    yep, that's true, and not complicated at all. When you buy the land, the zoning on the certificate can be changed into residential, no payoffs to gov.officials.
    Your notary is already aware of the fact you want to build your home there, he has to because he also makes the contracts between you and the nameholder, Forgot where, but I have translated some contracts for someone here, maybe it's that link Spicy posted? So he (the notary) also takes care of the new zoning on the certificate.
    I also need to tell that there is something like a 'cooldown' periode of 3 months after a certificate has changed zoning, this means that if anyone within the desa has a problem with you changing the zoning he/she could challenge this at the dep.agraria within those 3 months, but for this to happen you must have really pissed someone off.
    I assume you already have your drawings and estimate of costs of the house you want to build there? That's necessary to apply for your IMB. And without a certificate they won't give/sell you an IMB...wich is actually logical :) , how can someone have a building-license for said land if he/she doesn;t own the land...
    Oh..I just read you're working with a lawyer instead of with a notary?
    Some people always insist of using a lawyer? I don't get that, since the notary PPAT does evrything a lawyer can, ehm PPAT can does even more, and has alot more experience.
    anyways, you've got your answer.. feel free to check with a notary PPAT, but I am sure he will tell you what I did :) .
    friendly greetings, gilbert.
    Words like luck, chance and coincidence were invented to express the known effects of the unknown causes. (Voltaire)

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Seminyak, Bali
    Posts
    69
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    Gilbert/Scipyayam,

    You guys are great. Thanks. (Jimbo - why so risk averse?? you're much braver than 99% of people to go and live in a foreign land in the 1st place)

    Still plenty of hazards, but sometimes you need a little boost in confidence to navigate the minefield. Lawyer came back this morning with something akin (Indonesian word that has slipped its way into English dictionary) to what you are saying.

    Gilbert,

    I somewhat disagree with your rather knowledgeable comments regarding notaries. I had the same view as you prior to my 1st land transaction but have had my fingers burnt by a well known notary who likes to do interviews with various Bali media agencies. A notary works for the government and people should always keep that in mind. Having a strong grounding in legal and surveying matters, I thought I could do without a lawyer.
    I won't make that mistake again.
    IMO, there would appear to be a certain arrogance that permeates down through some in positions of power in Indonesia (notaries, government officials, police) that simply refuse to accept when they have made a mistake.........the difference between the integrity and honest of those who have nothing stands in stark contrast to those who have a lot (perhaps not that different to the West.....)........food for thought

  6. #6
    Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Canggu
    Posts
    213
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    I have bought and sold many houses here, all the land I originally brought was changed to allow a building to be erected. All transactions were done via a notary.never had a problem yet. The only thing slow at the moment is the issuing of the IMB, my latest villa took 4 months to get it...but as all builders I know here do, just keep building and when the guys arrive to check the IMB, rp300.000 keeps them happy for the next 3 months :D But like all things here there are variables, the guy next door paid 40% more for his IMB than us, even though his house and land are half the size, both were applied for by our Indonesian wifes.

  7. #7
    Insane Poster gilbert de jong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Panji, Singaraja.
    Posts
    3,162
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    7
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    Quote Originally Posted by motormouth
    the guy next door paid 40% more for his IMB than us.
    I'm not saying you used cheap materials, but maybe he used more expensive materials in his house? In other words the price for an IMB (new regulations) is a percentage of the price of the total build price. Maybe your neighbor over-estimated his costs and therefor more expensive IMB?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaffa
    I had the same view as you prior to my 1st land transaction
    That implies you have done multiple land transactions, but you have no knowledge about zoning? not trying to be an ass, just asking sincerely.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaffa
    A notary works for the government
    ??, Ehm, a notary works for who-ever pays him :wink: .
    about being knowledgeable...Thanks :) , imho I'm still fresh and a newbie on the Island, but have already lost count on how many land-transactions I have done (without lawyers), buying land-building a 'casa'-sell it. It's not my job, just helping Balinese people to get a piece of the pie. But whenever I do something I like/have to know the in's and out's of the process, legal, contracts, licensing, costs of materials etcetc...
    Anyways, if I understood the word 'akin', you are on your way to finalize buying your next property?
    Take care and goodluck and fun building your home.
    friendly greetings, gilbert.
    Words like luck, chance and coincidence were invented to express the known effects of the unknown causes. (Voltaire)

  8. #8
    Insane Poster Markit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Karangasem, Bali
    Posts
    4,560
    Thanks (Received)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    62
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    I feel that most of the answers here are true and all of them are well-meaning but for me the essence of the whole land buying scene here in Bali is to cover your ass and keep your money. Oh, and buy a nice piece of paradise to build on.

    With this subject there are no hard and fast rules governing what is allowed and what isn't so you/we seem to be forced to working in the grey areas - I hate this, personally and if you have gobs of dosh riding on it, then so do you. So my advice is:

    Insist on the prior owner being granted the IMB (from your plans, of course) before you pay one slim dime (apart from the deposit, keep that to $1000). If the deal falls through because of that then so be it. In my experience there are no more burning hot deals left on the island and any that appear so have something else going on.

    You don't say which county your land is in but also bare in mind that in Karangasem as from the first of the year they have stopped all developments within 3 km of a temple. There are a couple of things here to understand: What is a temple? What is a development?

    Similar regs are in force in the other areas on Bali.

    Again, you needn't worry about any of this if you demand that the seller get the IMB first - if he don't then Feckem! There is a reason. You don't abandon a bird in the hand for that bush bird :lol: not here, not anywhere!

  9. #9
    Insane Poster Markit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Karangasem, Bali
    Posts
    4,560
    Thanks (Received)
    16
    Likes (Received)
    62
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    Quote Originally Posted by motormouth
    but as all builders I know here do, just keep building and when the guys arrive to check the IMB, rp300.000 keeps them happy for the next 3 months
    Sorry, but I gotta disagree with this big time! I personally know of 2 people that followed this advice that are now sitting on expensive land that they can not build on or sell because they can not get an IMB!

    Do not do this! Maybe local builders do but the operative word there is "local" I think.

  10. #10
    Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Canggu
    Posts
    213
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Land designation/zoning - agricultural to residential

    Hi Gilbert, the guy next doors house cost @ 50% of the cost of ours. I think he went through the wrong channels. His architect and wife , both rang my wife today asking how we got our IMB so cheap..no idea why, maybe a bit of skimming going on with his contacts :?
    Markit, if a house is already zoned residential, never a problem commencing building before the IMB..however if this new dwelling was being erected next to or too close to a temple different story. A friend today told me about a new piece of land he bought.Paid rp 4Juta , and his land was changed to residential. Now I don't know how this was done by him, but result was he got it. :D

Similar Threads

  1. Bali district heads reject zoning law
    By balinews in forum Bali News - Indonesia News
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 28-05-2011, 10:34 PM
  2. cost of re zoning
    By Tory70 in forum Owning Property in Bali
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21-04-2010, 09:54 PM
  3. Zoning in Bali
    By spicyayam in forum Owning Property in Bali
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 26-01-2010, 09:12 PM
  4. Balinese “Residential” Architecture
    By Roy in forum Owning Property in Bali
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 10-10-2008, 05:38 AM
  5. Land Certification - agricultural to residential use
    By niksing in forum Owning Property in Bali
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-03-2007, 12:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •