Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

I have read on a website about indonesian expats that an indonesian woman if married to foreigner can not own any property in indonesia?does it mean this that we can not buy a house on my wifes`s name?I can not on my name as a foreigner as I know but my wife is indonesian citizen.What happen then with her family house that one day will be from her and also from a house that her mom was put already on her name?
Please if someone would give me any advise.
we was married a few years ago in Jakarta and we not made prenuptial agreement.we was registered the marriage in indonesia and then we gone to spain where we live now but we thinking in buy a house in indonesia this year;but I get so worried after I read that she also cannot buy anything in indonesia just because she married to foreigner,I hope that is not true but I have seen in several webs this information.
anybody in this forum mixed couple and have bought any property in indonesia?
Thanks very much
Best regards
Alex

Different Provinces of Indonesia have various laws concerning land ownership (Hak Milik). For example, it would not surprise me that if in Aceh, where a modified Sharia law exists, women would not be allowed to have land ownership regardless of their marriage to another Indonesian or a foreigner. I don’t know if that is fact, I’m just offering that as a hypothetical example.

In Bali, Indonesian women, regardless of what Province in Indonesia they are from are allowed to have land in their names if they are single or married to another Indonesian or a foreigner. If that mixed marriage couple has children, those children have dual citizenship until age 18 when they have to decide on their permanent citizenship status. So, if the mother, (in whose name is the Hak Milik) dies, the land can be inherited by her mixed blooded children, and remain in their names so long as they chose Indonesia as their citizenship when the time comes to make that decision. A non Indonesian spouse cannot inherit land from his or her deceased spouse.

Wherever you are planning to buy property in Indonesia it is essential to consult with an attorney. A notaris is simply not good enough...you need an attorney in the area where the land is located who is knowledgeable both with local customs, the land office, and the courts. Regardless of whether or not your Indonesian wife and you currently have children through that marriage, it is essential to have the attorney draw up a last will and testament stipulating to whom in her family (Indonesian) the Hak Milik would revert to in the event of her death, and that for you as the surviving non Indonesian spouse, a Hak Pakai, or land use agreement would become in effect.

This might all seem complicated, but a good attorney can sort it all out for you and the fees you will pay for the expertise of an attorney, and the documents they prepare is well worth the cost of very unpleasant surprises later down the road. Cheers.

As mentioned earlier, various Provinces of Indonesia may have different requirements, but here in Bali, that is just urban legend. My wife has five different pieces of property in her name (five Hak Milik) all purchased after we were married, all duly recorded, and all very legal. If you have doubts, then contact an attorney.

BaliLife is right unfortunately. Nothing to fear, but in case of trouble it could be used against your wife.

Sorry Bert, but you can’t just get away with a comment, “BaliLife is right unfortunately” and a glib, “that’s it!”

Good grief! You know Ibu Murni here in Ubud, if not personally, but by reputation. She’s had a number of “western husbands” and it would be entertaining as hell for me to witness anyone telling her all that land and businesses she owns (post marriages) is really not hers! Hell, that would be an Ubud revolution!

You know as well as I know that land ownership in Bali is also tied into Banjar adat. If that is where you are headed by your last comment, then why not explore that as well? I’m game if you are.

Hallo,

there must be something wrong.

As we have been told since many years and still now from our notaris and also from foreigners incl. one property-agent from Australia living and working here, an indonesian woman married with a foreigner cannot own land because of her marriage 1/2 of the land belongs to her foreign husband.
And that is not allowed according to indonesian law.

Am I right or are there other new possibilities?

johannes

The husband has to sign that he cancels his rights on the property, that's how it works according to my knowledge.
That's all fine, as long as the wife is alive. If she dies, her family may come up with claims on the property.

No Johannes, that is not right, but there is a quirk, which Bert alluded to, but did not elaborate.

First off, forget, forget, and forget some more what a bloody notaris tells you, let alone another foreigner (which would include me). Consult an attorney...a lawyer, and as I’ve said a billion times...a lawyer who resides and practices law in the same regency as where the property in question is located! A notaris CANNOT argue a case in a regency court!

Now, to the “quirk” alluded to, but not elaborated on by Bert.

In Bali, each of the regencies has its own “land office” and court system as well. In addition, within each Regency there are multiple Desa, and sub Banjar, each with their own, and sometimes combined adat...where the village rules, both from a religious and civil manner.

Bert mentioned only one hint “ ...in case of trouble.” What could be meant by Bert’s term “trouble?” Well, one example would be if the couple (mixed) within the village failed to participate in fund raising events for the maintenance of the likely many pura (temples) within the village. Another form of trouble could be abuse against staff hired from within the village to work at one’s home. Another form of “very big trouble” could mean drugs or pedophilia, and another big trouble problem could simply be getting the pembantu pregnant...an especially BIG problem if that girl was the daughter of the head of the village!

If you are a foreign male, married to a Balinese lady, (or any other Indonesian) then good luck if your wife dies. Without the respect and appreciation
of the village you live in, not to mention a strong family of in-laws, then indeed, the adat portion of your land situation can, as Bert alluded, go wrong. BUT...I have never heard of this “going wrong” against ANY Balinese woman who held a Hak Milik. This idea of land being taken away from any Balinese, be they man or woman is preposterous, and I challenge ANYONE with a verifiable story of any such incident in Bali to share that story right here, and with details that can be verified.

Executions, as they are called here, are very rare. In nine years, I’ve only witnessed one. That is when a regency court has ruled in favor against the family currently living on that property. At that time, the police come in full force to evict the current residents on the land that has been “executed.” Unless the head of the village banjar, and ruling adat members have agreed with the decision of the regency court, such execution will not take place in normal circumstances. To attempt to do so would only result in a riot.

The bottom line here is that rarely will a regency court (or the Polda, who is meant to enforce the ruling), go directly against village adat. That is a point which is often woefully misunderstood on this forum, and all the other forums I have read.

For almost six years on this forum I have been saying the same thing. If you are here only for your pleasure and enjoyment, then lease. If you are in love with a Balinese, who becomes your spouse, then be ready to commit to a life and a village you embrace with 100% of who you are. If you decide to marry your Princess, she can indeed own land in her own name here in Bali.

vandor wrote:The husband has to sign that he cancels his rights on the property, that's how it works according to my knowledge.
That's all fine, as long as the wife is alive. If she dies, her family may come up with claims on the property.

There is a "grace period" of one year, afaik. This is a unique situation, where a foreigner legally has rights to the property, but has to sell.

Roy wrote:
Good grief! You know Ibu Murni here in Ubud, if not personally, but by reputation. She’s had a number of “western husbands” and it would be entertaining as hell for me to witness anyone telling her all that land and businesses she owns (post marriages) is really not hers! Hell, that would be an Ubud revolution!

Practically you will find hardly any problems. But if it comes down to it....

Plenty of notaries I have consulted say the same.

If your wife ever has a legal dispute, it goes beyond Adat (It can) and they pull the "foreign mixed ownership" card....

There is a difference in Adat practices and Indonesian Laws, and normally things are solved Adat wise, but things can go beyond that.

I have seen this in my wife's village.

There was a "problem", and the police was called. Kepala Desa told the police however that these things are solved "in the village". Police kindly explained that the "problem" concerned an Indonesian Law problem, and they would take the case gladly, but if the village could solve it, it was fine too.

Bert, are we discussing the right of a Balinese woman to own property when married to a foreigner, or the foreign husband’s “right” for Hak Pakai after she is dead? As you know, these are very different issues.

BaliLife, you write,

“While all is well she might not have any problems, but if somebody starts sniffing around like so many Indonesians do in search of a pay-off, the fact that she owns land and is married to a foreigner without a 'contract' or 'pre-nup' that removes any claim the spouse has over the land, then yes - "there could be trouble".”

You are totally wrong, and you clearly have NO idea how things work within a banjar in Bali. What you would like to think could happen, never would! There is NO way in hell that anyone “sniffing around”, or whatever could think of stealing land from a Balinese woman who just so happened to be married to a foreigner and with land in her name! Good grief! Just what do YOU really know about Bali??!! Just where on earth is this unmitigated baloney coming from?

BaliLife continues...

“I personally don't trust Indonesian law, therefor (sic) consulting an attorney is not necessary.”

Good Grief! AND Good Luck! The whole point of an attorney is to navigate you through the murky waters! Are you serious with that comment?

HEY! You guys win. After all, why should I care anyway? You guys handle your affairs the way you see fit, and I’ll handle my affairs the way I see fit. There is absolutely NO point in my arguing this topic any further.

"Plenty of notaries I have consulted say the same."

BERT! To hell with the nortaris! They DO NOT PRACTICE LAW! OK? Mengerti? They cannot argue a case in court! They can ONLY serve as a witness. Geez...just ask one of them!!!

Bert says,

"If your wife ever has a legal dispute, it goes beyond Adat (It can) and they pull the "foreign mixed ownership" card.... "

That might be the case in your village Bert, but in my village? NO WAY!

Also in "your" village my friend. Things don't always end with Adat. Depends a bit on parties involved....

And as far as your distrust of Notaries concerning legal advice, up2you.