Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

I think I will just rent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The sky's falling in! The sky's falling in!

As usual SanurGirl (or whatever you name is) you are completely full of it.

During the conveyancing of land, one document which SHOULD be required by the Notary is the Kartu Keluarga (KK). This would establish that the spouse is a foreigner and any honest notary would not process any such transaction. The raeson being, implicit in the above, the land would become common property within the marriage; but a foreigner cannot own land.
In circumstances (Inheritence for instance) where a foreigner, against the specific provisions set forthe in indonesian law, becomes the beneficiary of land and/or property, then the foreigner is provided with a period of 12 months to sell the land.

What a load of complete nonsense. Did your wife the notary come up with that? For starters marriages performed outside Indonesia will not affect the Kartu Keluarga. Secondly the property can be in the Indonesian spouse's name. Just because property bought after a marriage is called "joint property" doesn't mean there is "joint ownership". The very existence of the 12 month grace period proves that. You make the very simple mistake of confusing beneficial ownership and legal ownership.

IMO the whole concept of the requirement for a prenuptial agreement is an invention of the legal profession and has no basis in law. If it did have any legal basis then any Indonesian that owned land would be prevented from marrying a foreigner. Think about. It's completely ridiculous.

BTW SanurGirl where is the evidence of the numerous "friends" that have been had these legal difficulties? Don't give me this bullshit about "oh you're in Melbourne you shouldn't give people advice". You have been asked many times and you have yet to cite ANY particular example. Come up with some concrete evidence to back up your assertions. You won't because you can't.

Where is that villa you donated? Which banjar is it?

Merchant banker - my arse.

Alan's rantings are as usual incorrect and largely off topic. One would have assumed an ex-Moderator would know better?
The only issue of relevance regarding the KK, although this was beyond the relevance and therefore scope of my research, is I suspect correct. An Indonesian woman married overseas to a foreigner and never registered the marriage in Indonesia and never wishes to live in Indonesia could indeed get round the problem. But then what would be the point? It is also of no relevance to the question raised by the original poster.
This will be my last post as I'm about to leave for the airport. But then I've already contributed all I know.

No it's you as usual that misses the point.

Who is saying that the spouse in question must be the female? Only you.

Who is saying that the spouse doesn't wish to live in Indonesia? Only you.

What has being an ex-moderator got to do with the facts? Nothing.

Does my summation of the situation directly answer the original poster's question? Yes.

What has a being an ex-moderator got to with owning property? Nothing.

Why don't you tell us who you really are and stop jerking us around. What's the real problem? Your hotel business not doing so well? Or maybe spreading FUD is good for your wife's notary business.

I can think of many problems to come. I "own" property in Indonesia but it is in my brother in laws name because my wife now has a British passport. Later when I have retired it is possible that she will change back to an Indonesian citizen and then take on the Hak Milik from her brother.

Our marriage IS registered in Indonesia. Oh what a wicked web is woven. It will be interesting to see how our personal circumstances are affected by the "law".

As a follow up to Allan’s two posts on this topic, not that they need a follow up, I hope the original poster, Alex (adityawarman) now feels more comfortable with the accurate information that has been provided without any “hidden agenda” or unintentional inaccuracies. Having now read the prior posts by SanurGirl, from last Fall, all of which relate to real estate and mentioning investment banking out of Hong Kong, I have little doubt about Allan’s suspicions. I sincerely hope that any prior suggestions made by SanurGirl that I have an axe to grind, or that my attorney is somehow inept, have been laid to rest.

If there is any lesson to be learned in this string, in my view it is that whenever in doubt, or unsure about real estate matters in Indonesia, it is essential to engage a good attorney. To that I would also add that in Bali specifically, it is highly suggested to become involved in as best a manner as you can with the village in which your property is located. It is only human nature to be suspicious of “outsiders” and those who chose to stay isolated, out of touch, and overly private will remain under suspicion and will never earn the respect and trust that makes life in a village so much more enjoyable and secure.

Speaking of outsiders within a village, and the suspicions raised therein, IMHO, ironically that applies here on this forum as well. In my view, formed over five years of mostly regular participation on this forum, it has never been that difficult to sort out the credible contributors.

If you took that ski mask off and showed us more than a pair of eyes, you might actually find that in time, you could earn some credibility here.

Nothing thus far posted on this thread by others has given your arguments any more credibility.

Ah...did you miss Allan's two posts?

As for PM’s it was you who first sent me a PM, so, what did you expect...a garland of flowers sent on a cart pulled by white bulls?

And by the way, since you are experimenting with sayings, it goes this way...“a six pack short of a case.”

IMHO, you are already 47 bottles short!

i shan't be re-checking this thread again.. your ongoing drivel is excruciating..

So says BaliLife as he retreats from the school yard, crying, and seized by so much frustration, that it is necessary to stomp his feet.

"I shan't be back" he cries, while turning his head backward on the place where he once again, failed miserably.

hallo forum members !
I would like to get information about property rules in Bali concerning court system. The story is stort : My wife (balinese) have land in Singaraja bought 1996 in her name. 1998 she got married with a mann from Holland and keept the original certificate in house in Holland. She got divorced 2004 in Holland and forgot certificate there. She rapport certificate missing in Holland, ex-husbond said he dont know where it is. December 2007 she suddenly have to be in court in Singaraja, because ex-husbond make court-case that she borrowed money from him. Thats not true and no proof but he bring the original certificate and use that to start the case, even thought he said to law in Holland he dont have it. Situation in court Singaraja is know that nothing really happens, only cost lot of money. The marriage agreement 1998 by deutch notary stats that both parts owe what they bring into marriage, meaning land belong to her acording to international rules. What is normally rules/tradition in case like this in Bali ? Actually the court case started without she got oficial invitation to meet in court

Hey Lars, welcome to the forum!

IMHO, this Dutch ex husband had better stick his finger in the dike, because what he will experience here in court against a Balinese will be a flood water and not a dribble.

Any contracts made outside of Indonesia, and not filed here are simply not going to hold up, or have any weight. This guy hasn’t a chance, but let him waste his money trying.

Hallo Roy !

Thanks for y fast reply. Thats what I think to, but case take so long time, and wife already paid 30. mil. rp. for "court administration" How is the rules about making new certificate ? She have the original akte jual beli and proof that she paid all tax of land and the notary already stated in court that she bought the land alone and notary have never ever seen that Deutch mann, and now ex-husbond claims that he is the owner of the land and she only the "nameholder" just because he steels the original certificate. Roy, do y know the lawyer system about payment to lawyer?, because everything went so fast so no written paying agreement with lawyer.

Lars, there is NO way this Dutch guy can claim ownership of land in Indonesia...unless through a PMA which clearly isn’t involved here...and even then, ownership would be restricted to PMA held assets, (which can include land)...but the foreigner’s name would not be on the land certificate.

30 million is a lot of money and it sounds like your Balinese wife needs to get over here pronto. No problem with a new land certificate...the notary who signed the original, and filed it can do that. He or she should have a copy in his or her records.

Worse case scenario is that your wife might need to consult with her kepala desa and initiate an “execution” if this Dutch guy decides to “squat” on her land. That can be a lot of fun, and when this guy sees the whole village descending on him, not to mention the police with water cannons and etc., I expect this guy won’t stop running until he reaches the airport! I’ve personally witnessed two executions in the last nine years, and they are very dramatic!

In short, your wife cannot but win here with her case. And, that’s the way it should be, IMHO. Cheers!

But he can claim having borrowed money, and I wouldn't be too sure about "the Balinese always win in court".

I wouldn't dare to make any assumptions about a court case where not all details are known..... Especially if the "other side" is not heard...

Oh, the "get me a new certificate" thing has been misused by nameholders to sell property they owned "only in name".....

Hallo Bert !
She in owner of land and not just nameholder, meaning land bought with money earned in europe before. If only nameholder there should be lawyer/notaris agreement statement about that. Bert, you do that in notaris Farida, same like I do, so we both now that system I am more interested in comments from forum members, who heart about simular courtcases or have the same experiences. He claims borrow money story without proof, written agreement or anything, even thought he stated according to Deutch divorce everything is cleared and settled back in 2004. Bert, he even lie to Deutch system not having the certificate.