Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

hmm let me think here... i think we have around 3500watts at home. this is what we use at home.. of course not 24/7 or all of them at the same time...

4 televisions, 2 refridgerators, 1 ac, 1 water-heater, about 14 lamps (10 of them energy-saving), 2 floor-fans, 2 dvd's, 2 laptops, 1 printer, 2 taperecorders, 1 washingmachine.. and tons of gadgets with rechargeable batteries to charge (hp, camera, psp, ppc etc etc)

costs us about 3-400.000 / month.

I see that the posting I started is generating (no pun, again) plenty of interest!

I have now received from my electrician the PLN rates for various levels of supply which I would like to post. Currently, they are in an Excel spreadsheet but when I tried to post them (by copying & pasting) the column formatting gets lost and makes the figures unintelligible. Can anyone suggest how I can post them on this forum in a meaningful manner?

The figures make interesting reading - especially when you try to correlate the actual bill figures in the various postings to the charges that are supposed to be levied.

C

Tommy, I’m as embarrassed as a mule trying to get it on with a horse. Two houses, and a commercial gallery, and I frankly have no clue what I pay a month. I’ll check with the “boss” who is off practicing with our women’s gamelan, and hopefully remember to post again later.

OK, edited the spreadsheet to take out the installation costs which leaves only the monthly charges. However, i still can't get it to post properly in columns. So, I have listed the headings split with []. You'll have to try to assess which figures go under which column. There are 6 columns but some only have a ' - ' in them.

There appear to be 3 types of service: A is the regular charge (don't yet know what constitutes 'regular' but it could mean Domestic), B seems to be a business rate, C is, I believe, a pre-paid card.

I am still trying to find out if there are more 'Regular' tarifs as the PLN web-site looks like it has some. Incidentally, has anyone checked the PLN web-site? My Indonesian isn't up to the explanations - maybe it will make sense to Bali residents who speak the lingo better. (web-site http://www.plnbali.co.id ).

Basically in the 'Bisnis" tarif section, for the fixed payment you get the wattage in the last column included. If you don't use what's given: tough, you can't carry it forward to the next month. Any use above the included wattage is charged at Rp 850 per Kwh. PLEASE NOTE THAT I THINK THE HEADINGS ARE WRONG HERE. I believe the extra charge is Rp 850 per WATT HOUR, not Kilowatt hour!!! and the last column should be WATT HOURS included not Kilowatt hours! Makes more than a slight difference!!

If someone could independently verify these tarifs it would be very useful.

Also, it would be great if anyone could see if their own actual circumstance fits in with the tarifs given.


No[]TARIF[]POWER (VA)[]FIX PAYMENT (Rp)[]PRICE/Kwh (Rp)[]Kwh INCLUDED (va)
A Regular (menyala)
1 R1M 450 4,950 650 -
2 R1M 900 18,000 720 -

B Bersinar (bisnis)
1 B1 10,600 1,062,500 850 1,250
2 B1 11,000 1,062,500 850 1,250
3 B1 13,200 1,062,500 850 1,250
4 B1 16,500 5,185,000 850 6,100
5 B1 23,000 5,185,000 850 6,100
6 B1 33,000 5,185,000 850 6,100
7 B1 41,500 5,185,000 850 6,100

C PLN card (pulsa)
1 - 2,200 - 966 -
2 - 3,500 - 966 -
3 - 4,400 - 966 -
4 - 5,500 - 966 -
5 max 7,700 - 966 -


Cheers,
C

Selamat "Crafty" good job. The “boss” is home after a long night of gamelan practice, and informs me that we pay about 2 to 2.5 million a month for all our utilities...two homes, and a gallery. That includes city water at the gallery and one home, (the other has a well), electric, and two telephones, (with endless hours on the internet).

That sures seems like a bargain to me, as when I left New York City almost eight years ago, I couldn't park my car for a month in a garage there for less than $300 a month, let alone pay for any gas to drive it out of the garage.

This is all “relative” and by that I mean that when an expat lives on Bali, and spends the same for utilities as the Balinese, I personally find that reasonable and fair.

Hi Roy, thanks for the feedback. Tomorrow, I'm going to go back over all the posts on this thread to see how the various usages might tally with the charge rates I've been given.

Unless I can get more power rating on a 'Regular' tarif, it looks like I will be on the Bisnis rating. And, on that basis, there is no incentive for me (other than installation costs) to take a lower rating than the 33kva that my electrician recommends I need. (same usage costs for a 16.5kva as a 33kva)

For sure, I am unlikely to use much more than 6100wh in a month, unless I have a full house for the whole of it, but potentially being in the position at the peak time (early evening) to be running 5 ACs, 4 pumps, kitchen equipment, TVs and lighting I don't want to trip the system with an underpowered supply.

Currently residing in the Middle East with its very low energy costs I suppose that I have been lucky so far but this makes the jump to Bali prices quite shocking. Meanwhile, I'm winging a few e-mail messages to friends around the world to get some prices from the real world!

Cheers,
C

Well, it has taken some time but I've now found out that the electricity costs I posted in late April are correct but they only apply to new applicants.
So, beware anyone who is about to apply for a new supply - the costs are rediculous!
Meanwhile, I'm beefing up the dynamo on my exercise bike!!

Hope this is not too long, but the data was taken from an Australian energy consumption chart and hopefully it may guide you as to what power your appliances are consuming:

On average

Cooling
Room air-conditioner (0.75hp) 800 Watts
Room air-conditioner (1.5hp) 1400
Room air-conditioner (2.5hp) 2500
Ceiling Fan - mid speed range 50
Ceiling Fan - high 80
Pedestal Fan 40

Hot Water Heating
Electric Storage3 - 50litre, 3.6kW
switched on all day 520
switched on for 1 hour per day 150

Refrigerator & Freezer
Refrigerator (1 door manual)T 80
Refrigerator (2 door auto defrost)T 150
Refrigerator (2 door manual defrost)T 200
Chest FreezerT 50
Refrigerator ("Beer frig")T - old 220

Cooking
Electric Stove (small element) - (1.25kWs) 700 Watts
Electric Stove (large element) - ( 1.8kWs) 1200
Electric Stove (grill) - (1.8kW) 1800
Electric Stove (oven)T 1100
Microwave - high 1600
Electric Kettle 2400
Toaster 1500
Food processor 450
Consumption per load kWh
Diswasher - Normal Cycle 1.35
Diswasher - "Econo" Cycle 0.60
Washing Machine - top loading 0.33

Bad Habits Typical

Electric Hot Water Service - on continuously 520 Watts
TV, VCR, Stereo, DVD & Cable on standby 34
Computer & printer left on 150
"Beer Fridge" 220
Ceiling Fan - mid speed on continuously 50
Ceiling Fan - high speed on continuously 80
Lighting Watts
Compact Fluorescent - CFL 10
18 watt fluorescent fitting 24
36 watt fluorescent fitting 43
40 watt incandescent gloge 40
60 watt incandescent gloge 60
75 watt incandescent gloge 75
100 watt paraflood 100
50 watt dichroic lamp 50
35 watt dichroic lamp 35

Computing
Computer - operating 110 Watts
Computer - monitor off 60
Printer 40

Entertainment
Television - 70cm colour 110 Watts
Television - 50cm colour 60
Stereo 50
VCR 20
DVD Player 20
Cable TV control box 15


Other
Clothes Drier 2500 Watts
Swimming Pool Pump 1100
Mobile phone charger - charging 5
Fan Heater 2400W 2400

Stand-by

Computer 4 Watts
Computer speakers 3
Monitor 3
Printer 5
Scanner 3
Split system air conditioner 15
Microwave 3
Television - colour 4
Stereo 5
VCR 5
DVD player 6
Cable TV controller 14
Answering machine 2
Mobile phone charger 1

Thanks Mungo. I’m really enjoying your revival of old strings.

I hope this doesn't seem like a dumb question, but my bill in Australia for 60 - 62 days averages 881 units in summer/ autumn(a unit being a Kw) upto 1270 units winter/spring(1,270 Kw). My bill ranges between AUD$150 - $220 per 2 month period. I have 2 child, wife, a 4 bed house with 4 tv's R/C A/c fridge, freezer, elec stove, two pc's, 3 stereo, 4 elec clocks, mw oven, wash m, dryer, and a lot of lights(I only just realised how much junk I have).

Now the wattage rates that you show:

are they your usage quota per month/period?

or are they the potential usage per household at any given time? (like when everything is on at full blast)

or are you paying for a limited consumption level whether you use it or not?

If someone could explain as I find with just about everything else on the great island being so cheap, your power bills seem dearer than Australia.

Mungo, all I can say about electricity charges here is that even the Balinese aren’t sure how their bills are determined. In our two houses and gallery, we see the “meter reader” about three times a year. Without doubt, our monthly bill is most often estimated.

In Ubud there is very little need for air conditioning, so that watt eating monster is generally not in use. Actually, our air con has only been turned on twice in many years...both times when my mom was visiting.

I agree that electricity is unquestionably the highest utility on Bali, but given what you describe as your charges in OZ, I don’t think it’s much worse here. Expats down south, where air conditioning is a necessity would likely say differently.

In the end, as one accounts for all their costs of living, Bali is still a great deal.

I agree with what you say Roy, and a system that would make you wonder how it all balances out when they actually read the meter. But I do understand how somethings work or don't work in Bali. Indeed the figure on the bottom line of the Bali budget would be well below that of its cousin in Oz.

But I do want to understand the nature of power usage for the different levels of wattage that can be accessed. It is good to hear that Ubud has a climate that does not rely on a/c's to keep cool. I would add that we only have the cool cycle of the a/c running no more than a dozen times a year at about 3 hours max. The warm cycle would be double that for the same running time.

Whilst I'm here and thinking of it, it amazes me with the design of Balinese homes that a roof guttering system is not installed to catch valuable drinking water. Is there a reason for this, besides the obvious lack of space on some of the small sized blocks and that some roofs are made of asbestos?

Whilst I'm here and thinking of it, it amazes me with the design of Balinese homes that a roof guttering system is not installed to catch valuable drinking water. Is there a reason for this, besides the obvious lack of space on some of the small sized blocks and that some roofs are made of asbestos?

That's an interesting point. The first island I ever spent a lot of time on was Bermuda. There, all the houses have a distinctive tiered roofing system designed to catch rain water and deposit it in an underground holding tank.

For most of Bali it seems that supplies of fresh water are not a current problem, but as you are likely thinking, that could change in the future given ever increasing demands for it.

Another consideration is that for many generations the sources of fresh water for the Balinese has been from its many rivers. As with the sawahs or rice fields, the rivers of Bali are viewed by the Balinese as also sacred, and their water is pure. These rivers originate from the most sacred mountains of Bali. Rain is more often viewed as nourishment for plants, whereas the rivers are holy gifts for the nourishment and cleanliness of man. If you think about it, you’ll note here that while the Balinese love to mandi in the river, they do their best to avoid being rained on.

One place on Bali that I have seen rain collecting roofing was in some of the most impoverished areas of East Bali. Another was in Nusa Penida, where fresh water is a very real problem, and rain collection is du jour.

Given the Balinese propensity to adapt, I have little doubt that if fresh water availability becomes a future problem in places where it is currently not, we will see more effort made to collect and store rain water.

I've been reading this topic with interest. We were thinking of building on our land in Bali but may have to reconsider due to the ridiculous cost of electricity for new supplies.

My husband has checked into it and explains it like this;

When building, you have to work out the maximum watts or kVA (kVA = 1,000 watts) your house will draw and order a supply which will cope with the maximum draw.

For 3.5 kVA to 13.2 kVA the price is not too bad.

RP 850 per kWH (Kilowatt/Hour) with a minimum monthly charge of 1,250 kWH plus 5% Tax. EG: RP 1,115,625

If you you need more than 13.2 kVA the news is all bad.

RP 850 per kWH with a minimum monthly charge of 6,100 kWH plus 5% tax. EG: RP 5,444,250

The RP 850 per kWH is quite good and compares favourably with world power costs. The killer is being charged for a minimum 6,100 kWH plus 5% tax.

In our case, we need about 23 kVA and will consume about 2000 kWH per month. But we must pay for 6,100 kWH

The is AUD$ 800.00 per month. The same useage in Australia would cost $340.00.

Boo, I don't know who you've been talking to, but what you wrote sounds nuts to me.

My very best mate, who operates two very successful and always busy restuarants in Ubud, as well as two houses pays on average about Rp 3 million a month for his electicity. We pay about 2 to 2.5 million a month for ALL our utilities...two homes, and a gallery. That includes city water at the gallery and one home, (the other has a well), electric, and two telephones, (with endless hours on the internet).

I'm sorry, but your figures are bonkers.

Hi Roy,

It sounds bonkers to me to.

It is right off an information brochure from PLN.

Apparently, it is for new supplies only. If you had your supply connected previously, the charge is vased on the old system.

After we heard about the new charge, we enquired with a friend who had his power connected a few months ago. He showed us his electricity account and it showed.

He has a 7700 watt supply.

His charge is RP 850 per kWH.

He used 230 kWH for the month as he was not in Bali much during that time.

kWH used 230
RP 850 x 230 = RP 195,500

Minimum useage charge = 1250 x RP 850 = RP 1,062,500

+ 5%

=RP 1,115,625

We were hoping it was wrong so my husband went to the PLN office.
They confirmed that for a 23,000 watt (23kVA) supply the monthly charge would be RP 5,185,000 + 5%

Crazy isn't it?