Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

Hi Every One
I would just love to live in Bali. I visit bali at least 3 times a year.
I have a very good job here in Australia that's why I can afford to travel to bali so often.
The problem is despite the wonderful job I have, I just don't want to live in this rat race anymore.
I understand I am not able to work in bali, but would I be able to buy and then sell online from bali????
Hope you can help me with this one!
Thanks

Welcome to the forum Balilover.

To answer your question concerning internet based business from Bali, you will still be required to have a business visa. This will apply regardless if your selling venue is web based, or on-line auction based.

One way to comply with the “letter of the law” is to keep your e-mail and ISP based in Australia, but even then you are not 100% free of detection. That being said, I know several expats who operate year after year on sosbud visas running very successful internet businesses out of Bali. Oddly enough, a 180 day single entry sosbud visa and business visa costs the exact same amount, so one can wonder why there would be any fuss.

Cheers, and good luck.

Thanks for that.

I'm not sure if I agree with some of Roy's assertions here.

...To answer your question concerning internet based business from Bali, you will still be required to have a business visa...

A "Business Visa" does not allow you to work in Indonesia. Neither does a "sosbud" (Social Visa).

...One way to comply with the “letter of the law” is to keep your e-mail and ISP based in Australia...

The problem with that is finding out, definitively, what "the letter of the law", actually is.
"Hiding" behind some ISP in another country might be useful. I'm not sure how you connect to the internet in Bali to connect to your ISP in Australia. Fancy proxy server magic somewhere, perhaps, but if you're physically here, you'll still need to jump onto Indonesia's communication backbone. Unless you go satellite (expensive) and I'm unclear about the details of how that works here.

A "Business Visa" does not allow you to work in Indonesia

To the extent that a business visa allows a foreigner to conduct business within Indonesia, and one regards that business as their work, then sure enough a business visa allows one to work in Indonesia.

Phil, our business here in Bali is primarily internet based and I have been on a business visa all these years much to the satisfaction of immigration. I don’t see where an internet business here in Bali would require a kitas, but the OP can check with PT Bali Ide to be certain.

AFAIK a business visa is meant for someone (an employee of a foreign company) to do business (for this company), on invitation of an Indonesian company, and then has to go home.

Any work done by foreigners in Indonesia while they live here requires a Kitas, IMHO

Phil, our business here in Bali is primarily internet based and I have been on a business visa all these years much to the satisfaction of immigration. I don’t see where an internet business here in Bali would require a kitas, but the OP can check with PT Bali Ide to be certain.

Why does not that surprise me? I think you are on very rocky ground and do not believe it is to the satisfaction of immigration. A business visa any where in the world is for business people to see what common ground there is to have a business relationship or the posibility of business between businesess in diferent countries. If this is what you are using to justify you working with out a kitas you are wrong and are breaking the law. But of course the choice is yours.

Please do not send me a long and detailed explanation of why you are right because nothing you say unless you can produce written documentation agreeing to your actions by the immigration department will convince me.

Calm down boys...Roy is right in theory

A multi entry biz visa PERMITS EXPORTING!!!!!!
In my book that's working!

It does not allow one to be EMPLOYED!!!!!
That's working for for someone else!

Hi It's me again The one that asked the question about "Selling on Line In Bali"
Thanks every-one for your replies. It's a little confusing.....
If I bought my lap top over with me How do I connect to the internet from Bali??
And is it expensive???

Please look in the internet section of the forum.....

internet-and-mobile-phones-bali-f46/

Generally internet is relatively slow, and expensive...

Actually Jimbo, it was the head of immigration at the main office in Denpasar (a nice Balinese gentleman now working at the Indo embassy in Bangkok), who first informed me to change my sosbud visa (which I had my first two years in Bali) to a Business visa, which I opted for a single entry business visa...same cost as sosbud.

Jimbo, how you can say I am rocky ground is somewhat surprising since it doesn’t seem as though you have had either a business visa or a kitas in Indonesia, but rather you were working in either Saudi Arabia or currently Kazakhstan all these past years. Is your Indonesian visa knowledge something we could call expertise by absentia?

Of course, I’ve only been living here for now going into my tenth year, so why in the world would I ever think I could convince you of anything at it pertains to Bali!

And by the way, the most highly recognized and expert visa agent on Bali...PT Bali Ide, has been handling my renewals for all these years. But hey! What to THEY know? Good grief Jimbo!

Unless "regulations" have changed in Indonesia, a "business visa" does not allow someone to work here. Check it out.

The "logic" in this statement by Roy is his logic. Appealing as it is, I don't think it's true.

...To the extent that a business visa allows a foreigner to conduct business within Indonesia, and one regards that business as their work, then sure enough a business visa allows one to work in Indonesia...

So - If this were true, why would anybody need or want a work visa (like a Kitas)? Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm sure I'll be "corrected" in due course.

My understanding of Indonesia's "Business Visa" is that it allows foreigners to come and go to "explore" business "opportunities", etc,...NOT to work.

...then sure enough a business visa allows one to work in Indonesia...

Unfortunately, that's NOT the case. Maybe somebody has to define what "work" is supposed to be in Indonesia, regarding foreigners.

Despite Indonesian government attempts to wipe out "corruption", it still seems rampant. People with powerful connections still get away with murder. "Want to work on a Business Visa? No problem...Pay this, pay that..."

All well and good until, and if, the shit hits the fan somewhere down the line.

Phil, I've had a business visa for eight years. That's 16 total business visas issued variously at either the Indo embassy in Bangkok or Singapore. Each of those visas have been renewed a total of 64 times at immigration here in Denpasar...and all through PT Bali Ide. Moreover, each of those 16 business visas (single entry for me) involved 16 entries into Indonesia, and inherent with that, 16 more opportunities of scrutiny by immigration at the airport!

Now, wouldn't you think that after 16 business visa issuances, 64 renewals and 16 arrivals, that if the visa was not the right visa for me and, the business activities I am involved with, that maybe I would have heard about that by now?

The original poster, Balilover, has stated that they want to live in Bali and conduct business by the internet. Having no "brick and mortar" business like a gallery or restaurant, a business visa should be more than initially sufficient.

But, and as I previously wrote Phil,

"the OP can check with PT Bali Ide to be certain."

Another point here Phil is that it is always easier to go up the visa ladder rather than down. In other words, if a business visa is deemed sufficient for Balilover, then it would be unwise for him or her to start off with a kitas.

Jimbo wrote:

Please do not send me a long and detailed explanation of why you are right because nothing you say unless you can produce written documentation agreeing to your actions by the immigration department will convince me.

Gee Jimbo, don’t you think the actions by both the Indonesian embassies in issuing those 16 business visas AND their subsequent 64 renewals by immigration here in Bali constitute an agreement that such visa was correct for the business activity? I guess you’ll just have to trust me that I didn’t pay anyone off, or offer bribes.

Ok, this is going to be a yes / no game.

I believe Roy is wrong, and so do other people. I certainly would not advice anyone to follow the same path as Roy.

Simply, living and working in Indonesia requires a Kitas, and a job that is "approved" by the Indonesian government.

Things going "ok" for years, doesn't mean they ARE ok.

So Bert, you would discount the advice of PT Bali Ide?

Things going "ok" for years, doesn't mean they ARE ok.

Is that a personal anecdote? Have you had a nasty visa experience?

Simply, living and working in Indonesia requires a Kitas, and a job that is "approved" by the Indonesian government.

In that case, then why is there a business visa at all...and furthermore, why are those visas good for up to one half a year per visa...just like sosbud?

I certainly would not advice anyone to follow the same path as Roy.

Why? Because they could get deported or thrown in jail?

Good grief Bert!

Roy wrote:So Bert, you would discount the advice of PT Bali Ide?

I don't think Bali ide can be discounted as an adviser, but they also act on information they got, and may also be led the wrong way, unintentionally.

Roy wrote:

Simply, living and working in Indonesia requires a Kitas, and a job that is "approved" by the Indonesian government.

In that case, then why is there a business visa at all...and furthermore, why are those visas good for up to one half a year per visa...just like sosbud?

Good question, Roy.

A business visa is meant for people who have a business relationship with Indonesia, and live abroad. They are invited by an Indonesian company, (this company is on your visa application, as well as your home address) to do their thing, and then go home. Its not intended to take up employment, or start / run a business.

If you apply, do you provide your Indonesian address?

Roy wrote:

I certainly would not advice anyone to follow the same path as Roy.

Why? Because they could get deported or thrown in jail?

Good grief Bert!

Yes, good grief ....