Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

Yeah, yeah, its all fun and games, isn't it Roy....

I hope that you will never run into trouble, but your wishful interpretations of certain rules are simply wrong.

You live in Bali, and run a business there, end of story.

I doubt if Bali IDE knew all, they would advise a Business Visa......

Hmmm. Bert, that was a rather unusual comment from you. I won’t publicly share what I think about it, or where I think such a comment originates, anymore than I will some of Phil’s previous comments.

My comments are wishful? I don’t think so. Rather, I think that they are practical and useful.

“You live in Bali, and run a business there, end of story.”

Yes, I do live in Bali, and almost for ten years on now. But no, I do not run a business here...and that is the real end of this story.

“I doubt if Bali IDE knew all, they would advise a Business Visa......”

Well, they do know all, but in truth, they are only the “second string quarter back.” Sorry to use an American football metaphor, but the reality is, the immigration officials are the first string quarter backs.

To be totally blunt, I am somewhat surprised with some of the vitriol that has been expressed on this string. Does that come from the analysis previously presented that I am living a “charmed life” or “living in a dream?” Or does that come from something more nefarious or sinister?

I really don’t want to go in the direction to where I am pointing by those questions Bert, but I would really like to think that you understand what I mean.

No doubt there are some "sentiments" in play, there are people pissed, it can stop one day I hope...

I am not ill hearted here Roy. Your situation concerns me. I have no other motives, although you suggest so.

If you are convinced you have a secure situation, fine. I don't think you have, and also some others seem to think not.

I hope you can get renewals until they throw you on the fire, hope they don't ask for a Kitas at the gates of Hindu heaven

Gee Bert! Are you in competition with Phil for high melodrama?

And no, I am not at all suggesting that you have other motives, although that prior post from you was very strange, and it conveyed, clearly to me anyway, something other than what was explicitly written.

“If you are convinced you have a secure situation, fine. I don't think you have, and also some others seem to think not. I hope you can get renewals until they throw you on the fire, hope they don't ask for a Kitas at the gates of Hindu heaven.”

With all due respects, I don’t care what you, or anyone else thinks about the security of my position here. As I have said, and to the point of ad nausea, I rely on far more reliable entities for that security...as do many other established long term expats. The only difference between them, and me, is that I am willing to discuss this openly. The only fires waiting for me Bert, are the ones to come at my cremation.

When it is deemed time for me to change my visa yet again, I, and just like many others before me, will be summoned to immigration and be informed. There will be no fire, but rather, just a pleasant and cordial conversation. At that time I will obviously comply with the advice, just as I did when I was first advised to change my sosbud to a business visa.

As for the metaphor you offered about a kitas being required “at the gates of Hindu heaven” my only observation is more surprise...not something I would expect from someone like you, unless cynicism has taken hold. I sure hope not.

For me personally, it has been more than just passively interesting to read on this string the paranoia and uncertainty that some live with in their lives...be it here in Bali, or elsewhere. I’m unsure what else to add to that observation beyond it being noted. It is a shame though, and for me, it has never been a part of my life on Bali. Some may call that living a “charmed life” and others, “living in a dream.” It doesn’t matter to me. It’s my reality.

Roy,

I have not taken any exception to the list of permitted activities by a biz visa that you reproduced from a website, on May 8. In particular, the two activities, which you point out:

-Making field visits to Indonesian affiliates or companies to discuss commodities to be purchased or sold in the import/export business.

-Performing the task of controlling the quality of goods to be imported from Indonesia.

are absolutely legit.

I wrote: “A biz visa does not allow one to personally export for any kind of resale anything from Indonesia.”

I underlined "personal," but I agree that it did not express my point correctly. I wanted to say that a person on a business visa has to be acting as a representative of an entity OUTSIDE of Indonesia, including himself or herself. But a biz visa certainly does not allow you to carry your own business you have established IN Indonesia.

But a biz visa certainly does not allow you to carry your own business you have established IN Indonesia.

Agreed.

Roy, just wrote a comment concerning this unbelievable discourse; my head was spinning like the girl in the exorcist movie. Hey guys, it seems to me that whenever you do not agree with Roy you attack him mercilessly. (spelling) To tired to look up the correct spelling.
Anyway, one can agree to disagree but to become rude is not necessary.

Roy obviously has done his homework with immigration etc, so whats the beef. Like he said, if the big honchos told him it is time to change his visa; he would. Give it a rest. Oh yeah, and Roy you maintained your cool remarkably. I think you guys who cast such verbal tirades towards Roy should be spanked.

It's indeed a classic case, Judy. I know a very decent, knowledgeable, resourceful, successful in his own right, American man in Singapore though still very young, who just goes his own way all the time by doing his things, working hard, etc., yet, some of the men from other nationalities ganged up on him by talking bad behind his back, etc. I find it appaling. Luckily, this man always stays cool and respectful. I love that about American men. They are mature and always put their wives on a pedestal, which is another trait in them that I love. So, you go, Roy!

[quote]Anyway, one can agree to disagree but to become rude is not necessary.[
/quote]

In my over 1000 posts Judy I challenge you to find one post where I have been rude to anyone. In Roy's 3000+ posts I can find you at least 10%.

Roy is pedantic and often right but on those occasions when he is wrong he like anyone else is told. That is not rude it is just a fact. Look at how many times Roy tells others they are wrong and has he will himself say "I do not suffer fools gladly". Believe me he hands out a lot worse than he gets and is perfectly capable of looking after himself.

Of course, one should always “consider the source” and the credibility of that source when being told “they are wrong.”

Thanks for your comments Judy and Milan! Cheers!

Does a US expat have to pay tax in the USA as well as INDO tax on his/her profits on line ?

Profits are not taxed Jamie...net income is taxed.

The newby's must have thier heads spinning,,Welcome to Bali guys! Lets face it nothing is really 100% right here, its based on who you know and what are you willing to pay,,, Even if you do have "correct' documentation , im sure if you piss off the right person you could be deported or worse, if you do not have local suport and representation,,, Sorta right?

In an attempt to control the “head spinning” a bit, let me reiterate that in one of the offices at the head immigration office in Denpasar, there is board which tracks deportations from Bali, and the reason for the deportation.

IMHO, experience, and in discussions with others including several consuls representing various foreign governments here in Bali, most all deportations are for very good reasons, and often enough, when visa violations are cited as the reason, it is only because there wasn’t enough proof to arrest and charge the deported “undesirable” for the “real reason” they were booted out. Those other reasons can and often do include well founded suspicions of drug use, prostitution, and pedophilia.

None of what I just wrote should be interpreted as meaning that immigration cannot, or will not, boot someone out solely for a visa violation, as they can, and have, but generally ONLY after the person has been called in for an interview and warned to change their visa in order to comply with their actual activity on Bali.

But yes, it is “sorta right” that it can sometimes add up to who you know just as much as what you know, and longevity counts, meaning the longer one has lived in Bali adds to one’s credibility.

Hi all

Selling on-line in Bali

Reference to your post regarding Business Visa and Kitas ( 11 May 2008)

Sorry a bit late posting.

If you apply for Business Visa you can only be a Business Consultant or looking for business opportunities and not allow to work for yourself or anyone else let alone having a salary.

If you like to work in Indonesia, any kind of work and get pay for it, YOU MUST HAVE A KITAS, no other way available.

If you’re willing to pay extra, you can get what you want, not all the times.
They can change their mind and screw you and you can’t do anything about it.

Be very, very, very careful

L.

Reference to your post regarding Business Visa and Kitas ( 11 May 2008)

Whose post? Both Jimbo, Bert and myself posted that day.

And, if I may ask a few more questions...A) where did you get your business visa expertise, and B) who the hell are you?

I guess, given the gist of your post, that perhaps you were “screwed.” If so, tell your story...with anonymity of course, but PLEASE...let’s get off the “Be very, very, very careful” red flag.

You come on here as brand new, and cry “wolf” and personally, I take it as just that...crying wolf!