Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

Hi,

Iám reading the forum for a long while, but this will be my first post.
Iám planning to open a guesthouse or rent a villa to tourists.
I know that there are enough illegal villa's for rent. I want to rent it on the 'legal' way.
To my knowledge i need a pondok wisata licence ( Guesthouse licence) to run a guesthouse, i also know that it can only be requested by an indonesian.

you can download the request form here:
http://upt.denpasarkota.go.id/syarat/fo ... Wisata.pdf

Now my question is can i run a guesthouse as a private person (Bule) or do i need to setup a PMA for it?
Or are there any other licences needed? Or does anyboy has a clue how to run this legally?

Iam visiting Bali over aprox 3 months to work out my plans, so any advice would be nice.

thanks for reading,

Hugo

Not an area in which I have a great deal of experience and there have been recent mutterings about the adviseability of setting up a PMA (private company) just to rent out a villa. As to a small hotel there are people here (Mimpimanis and Richard Kalibukbuk) who should be able to give you advise.

Good luck on your venture.

heerhugo wrote:Hi,
I know that there are enough illegal villa's for rent.

OK, I'll bite - what is an "illegal villa"? Do you have in mind a villa with ownership in order, the building permit is OK, but the owner (or lessee) occasionally "rents" it to visitors without having any pondok wisata , homestay or hotel registration in order. Is this what an "illegal villa" is? I would more describe that as a "legal villa" being rented without appropriate approvals.

Hello,

Thanks for the answers. I will specify my ideas.
I want to lease a villa and rent it to tourists without having problems with the government.
Somebody told me i need a pondok wisata for it. I don't know what is legal and illegal but i want to rent it without any problems. I'am curious how other people rent there villa. And what the risks are without renting it with the appropiate approvals.

Do i get in problems when a jealous neighbour goes to the police and say : 'look what my neighbour is doing?'

I have heard a lot of stories that business goes wrong in bali, so i try to get information to
do the right way. I also saw an article that the government wants to stop íllegal' renting from villas.

As i can conclude: i can rent my villa to other tourists without a pondok licence as a privat person without any problems?

thanks again,

Hugo

We have a licence for Mimpi Manis. Not sure what the licence is called but it has Made's photo on it and has to be renewed every year. It doesnt cost a lot. Certainly not enough for it to be a cost we have to think about. I will ask Made more about it later.

An article on BaliDiscovery.com dated 15 January 2006 suggests that commercially rented villas cannot operate under a Homestay or Pondok Wisata licence:

During the Commission's visit to three accommodation addresses they found two luxurious boutique properties operating with the licenses for a "homestay" or pondok wisata, and another locally owned property running with no licenses or permits at all.

http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/m ... sp?ID=2974

Another article on BaliTimes.com from November 2006 suggests contacting the Bali Villa Registry for information on licensing.

Villa owners may register under the amnesty program before December 25, 2006, at http://www.balivillaregistry.com, and details on compliance regulations would follow.

http://www.thebalitimes.com/2006/11/09/ ... al-villas/

I would strongly suggest that you go to a lawyer to find out this kind of information so that you will be completely legal. Only the most general advice can be given in a forum of this nature.

Mimpi has a guest house not a villa.

heerhugo wrote: I also saw an article that the government wants to stop íllegal' renting from villas.

Hugo

This "crackdown" was in the Badung regency, and was mentioned on this forum here
http://balipod.com/bali-travel-forum-f16/villa-owners-who-rent-lease-must-register-t18381.html#p42351

We are in Buleleng regency and I have heard that they are compiling a list with the intention of undertaking a similar campaign sometime soon.

You can find more in the Bali Update Archives, go here:
http://www.balidiscovery.com/update/default.asp
scroll down the page to find where you can search the archives - I tested it using the Google option and strings like "Badung villa registration" or "illegal villa". You can experiment further and you will find plenty to read - but I doubt you will become enlightened - Bali is a bit like that.

Theres no cheap/easy way around this.

Im only a renter, but recently had a huge falling out with my landlord over the issue of villa tax. His arguement was that this law on villa tax was written in stone in 2002, but the authorities have never enforced it, so he thought that as such it would never be enforced.

I got a knock on my door 3 months ago in Seminyak, a lot of men in plain brown uniforms asking rental/ownership questions. A month later, my landlord is asking me to pay 10% tax on the 2 years up front i'd already paid.

He claims he is being charged 10% tax on his calculated average annual income from the villa, AND it was being backdated to 2002. When i asked to see the bill, he couldnt provide it as this taxation is done under a "self assesment" . He said if he did not "self asses" and provide payment in the very near future, the authorites would gladly come and asses the yearly earning potetial of the villa for him, and provide him with a bill. He said this would be a lot higher than if he asseses a reasonable rate himself.

I cant see how getting a very cheap Wisata Licence would negate all this.

Basically, if you are running a villa as a business, you need to set up a business here, to set up a business you need to have the right kind of visa.............the loopholes have been shut and the laws are being enforced.

mimpimanis wrote:We have a licence for Mimpi Manis. Not sure what the licence is called but it has Made's photo on it and has to be renewed every year. It doesnt cost a lot. Certainly not enough for it to be a cost we have to think about. I will ask Made more about it later.

Hi thanks for your answer, i'am very interesting which licence you have and if you do it as a private person or as a business (pma)


To everyone:

I haven't got any property yet, but iám looking for a property to rent to tourists so i can finance my stay a little in Bali. If i have to run a guesthouse because it's easier and with less licences to operate, it will be a guesthouse.If an villa to rent easier it will be a villa.
If i want to be really commerciel i'll should setup an pma and request all licences.
It will be also a temporarly solution to survive for a short time to setup another business and integrate in bali.
Ofcourse i will pay the 10-11% tourist tax, i think it's more then normal if you rent it.

It's 'funny' to read that there are 1000 illegal villas and just 40 legal villas, but i don't want to have a lot of men in plain brown uniforms at my doorstep...

everyone thanks for your answers, if you have more suggestions....

Hugo

i asked a lawyer a question about the licence and this is his reply:

My name FR.P Budi Martadi, you can call me Budi. I’m a lawyer from LHS Law Firm. My Managing partner told me about your email and ask me to answer your question about “Pondok Wisata”.
You do not need PMA for Pondok Wisata License, you can get it License Personally by make agreement with native who will manage your pondok wisata or by name an Indonesian native which his/her name you use or borrow to get Pondok Wisata Lisence.
If use the way like I describe above the cost is will be under $ 150 USD or under 15.000.000,- IDR.
But all that I explain above is about you own Pondok Wisata business. My answer is not about the way to own Pondok Wisata Land/Site. About Pondok Wisata Land/Site ownership there’re several answer depend in which region you will be buy the site/land because some region have their special regulation about land mater for example Jogjakarta have different regulation from Bali.
Thank you
Regards

FR.P Budi Martadi

Hi,

Herewith, I would like to inform you that we have a property in

<MOD EDIT>

NO ADVERTISING

Advertise here:

http://www.baliadvertising.net/

</MOD EDIT>

Have a great day

You too, and read the rules.

Hi,

I have visited Bali and informed about the guesthouse licence.
A simple and straight answer is:

-If you are a foreigner you have to setup a business (pma/cv) after that you can request a guesthouse licence.
-If you are balinees you can request a guesthouse licence without setting up a business.

In my case iám going to rent a guesthouse from a balinees and he request the guesthouse permit for me on his name. So i don't have to setup a pma or cv.

Hope this helps somebody

greetings,

Hugo

Alright hugo,

so i gather you've found a suitable place for your venture.
Just one tip, please cover your *ss with contracts between you and your Balinese nameholder.
the way I read your last post...the Balinese already has a guesthouse, which is operating without a license? You are going to lease this guesthouse, but everything stays in his (Balinese) name, and you are going to pay for a license in his name....see where I am going at? Dont want to see you being scamed out of your investment. This being said....where is the guesthouse, north/south/east Bali? and what kind of location? Anyways, wishing you all the best and succes!
friendly greetings........Gilbert.

Hi Gilbert,

The guesthouse is not in operation right now. A friend of mine owns a few hotels in Bali.
He rents it from the owner and request a guesthouse permit. I rent it again from him including the guesthouse permit. I am not going to pay for the guesthouse licence.
This is the only way to run a guesthouse without setting up a pma/cv
The guesthouse is located in the south just 200meters from the white beach.

thanks for your reply,

hugo

I have been reading these postings and I agree that there is seems to be no real easy way of legally operating a rental villa in Bali aside from starting up foreign or local companies. I have recently rented 2 villas from a local Balinese man and for us to be able to rent them out legally, I too have been told to get the licence and permits in the property owners name. if anyone can give advise on this topic, I too...would love to hear about your experiences.