Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

Would love to hear any stories of people in Bali working remotely over the Internet or running online businesses.

I have been doing this for a couple of years now (not in Bali, yet!) and you can pretty much do this anywhere, without the hassle of work visas etc, it is very easy to stay under the radar when you work online, particularly as you are not having to engage with anyone locally. The only issue is visa runs I guess.

Lots of lots of opportunities out there in the web and it is great earning Euros and living in cheap countries like those in SE Asia!

Anyway would love to hear from anyone else and happy to answer any questions about getting started in online businesses...

Hi twiceaman. We are not operating an on-line business but do have some web sites. Internet access in Bali can costs twice as much as in western countries and that buys you a slower speed access and outages ("we are having trouble with our provider") are more common. But assuming that your web sites are hosted in a country with good Internet access, then you can easily maintain everything from Bali with only minor frustrations sometimes.

Twiceaman, I’m rather surprised that nobody has picked up your post, and ran for a touchdown with it.

First there is the law, which in a nut shell, and without all the details, (which could endlessly go on), states that any sort of business activity in Indonesia, (wherein you will receive an income or profit when on this soil) requires either a business visa, or kitas visa, depending on the details of what activities you are engaged in.

Secondly, there is the old reality. That is, that so long as your web site is hosted off shore, the chances of being nailed are slim to none.

Thirdly, there is the change. The change is that in just the last few years, Polda has introduced an increasingly effective internet task force that includes in its mission, to find out just who is doing what, and where. This force was initiated as a result of the clamp down on terrorism, but its capabilities exceed the initial intentions. In short, what that means, is that regardless if your web site is hosted off shore, you will be using a local ISP provider to access, maintain, and run that site...and cloaking software will not work.

An article in Jack Daniel’s most recent newsletter, (from yesterday) points to just one direction that Polda is using its newly found capabilities:

http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=4621

This reality, the reality of change, potentially opens up a Pandora’s box. For example, we just hosted a very prominent attorney from California who stayed at the Amankila and the Royal Pita Maha during his stay. He was on line for at least three hours a day, with his clients, and surely he was conducting business...facts being, that many high level professionals cannot ever be 100% away from their business. So, was our friend, here on a tourist VOA breaking the law? Of course not, except in the mind of someone who only views laws in black and white.

Prior to the internet, would a tourist in Bali who called his or her office back home be in violation of the then 60 day automatic tourist visa? Obviously, no, even if during that conversation a large deal was consummated.

Anyone who claims that visas to Indonesia are so clad in black and white is not only wrong, but they are foolish by their lack of understanding how common sense is employed here. The idea that work, or ANY kind or “work” is disallowed on any visa either than a kitas or business visa is absurd. If that were the case, then even helping your neighbor paint his house would be a potential violation of a visa...so also would be cutting your own grass.

On the other hand, long term abuse of a visa’s intention, and over years, could, and will more likely in the future, result in a challenge to a current visa status that does not allow for regular business activity.

That's a very interesting post Roy.. You've pointed to things that clearly are grey areas and the case of your hostee, the lawyer is a very interesting observation as to the potential interpretation / application of common sense..

And before you fly off the handle, thinking that this is in challenge to any points you made, it is not. But I just wanted to point out an interesting thing about Canada that pertains to a point you made - yes, nothing to do with Bali, but interesting how they justified the letter of the law.

then even helping your neighbor paint his house would be a potential violation of a visa...so also would be cutting your own grass.

When my parents entered Canada on a tourist visa to visit us (they're now PR's), we had just had our son. He was a couple of months old. We'd given them a letter as had been requested because the planned length of stay was over 6 months. I had been told that it was very important for Canadian immigration to be assured that they were not going to do anything that would potentially take work away from a canadian resident - and that included such things as helping in the house and suprisingly (or should I say, stupidly) providing extended care for their grandson. I actually didn't believe this when I was told it. But I cautioned my parents that if asked about this, upon entry, to answer such correctly - ie, that they were not going to be providing such care (when in reality they were). Sure enough, when they entered, they were questioned extensively - see our letter had needed to justify the length of their stay and we had referenced the birth of our son. They were told over and over by Canadian Immigration that if they were found to be providing extended care to our son, they'd be in breach of their visitor's visa - they said that such might result in a canadian resident not being hired for the job. To this day, I maintain, I've never heard of anything as insane as this - besides the fact that they could never know, it seems ludicrous to suggest a grandparent on a tourist visa can't fill the roll of babysitter for their grandchildren - which of course they did. So again, this isn't about Bali, but to draw on your point, if you were visiting Canada, and you helped your neighbour paint his house, you'd apparently be in breach of your visa - as that job should have gone to some unqualified SOB who would charge your neighbour $200/hr.

Ct

So, what you are saying is, Canadians must be heathens as they’ve thrown out the Christian concept of “help thy neighbor” with the baby’s bath water?

could be..

Or perhaps they just don't want to miss out on some more tax revenue, payable at 48% or so in its highest bracket..

Well I'm trying to fill the role of peacekeeper at the moment - all the pembantus in the house have been left crying after an unnamed family member blasted them all because one re-froze a previously thawed meal Sometimes I wish they'd stand up for themselves - but I guess that's a luxury they don't have. Culturally, some things are better in this country than in the west; and culturally other things are primitive and cruel. That, unfortunately I don't see changing anytime soon.

Ct

how does this pertain to running a simple blog with google ads? it is not so much, a business but a hobby and it generates its own income

Read this string again Cali. If you are using an Indonesian based ISP, then yes, your activities can be tracked.

right, I understood that, I guess I should have been more specific in my question.

My question is, is it illegal to have that website up and running? say for instance, I did no work on it while I was in Bali, it would still bring in income for me, just from being on the internet.

OK, I understand now what you are asking. No is the answer...no problem at all. There is no problem being a foreign resident (expat) of Indonesia and earning income from business or investments outside of Indonesia. In fact, in order to get a retirement visa one is supposed to show income from outside Indonesia...like a pension, social security, or other investment income.