Thread: buying property

Dear forum members,

Me and my family are thinking about moving to Bali in the next couple of years. It al depends on us being able to sell our company for a good price.
My wife is from Java and we have two young kids.

From what i know and what i red in this forum, its still difficult to own property in Indonesia by foreign people. Because my wife has a dutch paspoort that option isn`t availabe either.

My question: woul it be an idea to let her parents buy the property and we just live their (together with them)?
Coul we then make a legal contract with here parents that we inheret the
property after the both died?

Roy`s vision on this woul be much preciated.

Thanks
Jos.

Jos, the first “order of business” should be to say welcome to the forum! So...welcome to the forum!

Many thanks for your confidence on my opinion, but I am not an attorney (thank the Gods) and any decisions you make regarding your question should be based on consultation with a good attorney here and before you buy any land.

You say your wife is Indonesian, but as she holds a Dutch passport, her Indonesian citizenship is no longer valid here, as in Indonesia, dual citizenship is not allowed.

From what I understand, once you move back to Indonesia, she could renounce her Dutch citizenship, apply for, and reinstate her Indonesian passport and citizenship status. If your move to Bali is to be permanent, then that might be the best way to go...and any property you buy will therefore be in her name. Her ability, or right to further pass on that property to your children will depend on their citizenship status at the time of her death.

Very recently the legislative branch of the central Indonesian government in Jakarta passed a new law geared at alleviating some of the inequities inherent in the previous laws as they regard mixed marriages, the citizenship status of the offspring of such marriages, property rights, etc. It will likely take at least a year before this new law is further defined as regulations and methods applicable at the immigration and land title offices throughout Indonesia.

A question you ask is that if you made your land purchase by way of her parents, could your wife (assuming she remains Dutch) “inherit” this property upon the death of her last surviving parent. I am 99% sure the answer to that is no insofar as I am aware under the current land based regulations.

However, there is one way of circumnavigating that problem, and for a very long time. That would be by way of what is now being called, “the self perpetuating lease.” This kind of lease, which you would hold and your wife’s parents would grant, is a written and legal document wherein the normal lease period, typically 20 or 30 years, would automatically renew for another 20 or 30 years by virtue of your additional payment (one dollar, a thousand rupiah, 5 guilders, whatever) and this cycle of lease renewals continues, without any time certain period.

For such a lease to be considered legal, it requires that all persons bound by the lease are living during any time period that the lease is considered as a binding legal contract. A good lawyer here can include clever wording that this lease includes the unborn children of so and so, “yet to be named” etc.

In practice, property matters here generally only reach the court system in the event of a dispute raised by another party. None of us has a crystal ball allowing us to look into the future, but, with some hard thought and common sense, one can at least anticipate the future regarding any of your property, the use of by your two children, etc.

Again, I cannot stress enough the need for a good attorney in such matters. Forget about using a notaris, as they cannot argue cases in court. When the time comes, if you need some good recommendations for a good attorney in the Gianyar regency, should that be where you make your land purchase, I would be happy to make some recommendations. Any attorney can argue a case in any of the eight regencies, and the district of Denpasar in court, but I have learned that it is most always preferable to select your attorney within the regency of Bali that will be your home. The advantage with that is that the justices that will hear the case, if it ever comes to that, are familiar with the attorney.

I hope this is all helpful to you, and kind wishes for your smooth move to Bali.

Dear Roy,


First of all many thanks for all your explanation on the questions in my letter. I think that the `work`you do for all those people like me is of great value and means a lot to us! The forum is an excellent place to get up to date information about live on (or is it ìn`?) Bali and I have been following it since last april. People like you should be getting paid by the Indonesian gouverment for sending out all that information and giving assistence in many cases too. :wink: :idea:

The last three years more than 100.000 people immigrate from Holland to other places in the world. Many of them are fad up with the `rat race` (just like you have experienced in the US) and are looking for an easier and more relaxed way of living. So do I. The greater part of all those people who leave in our country do have some money they will bring with them for buying property, and in most cases start retirering and spend their (savings) money.
Thats never bad for a country i guess.

Thailand (and we have looked also to Thailand) is also quite attractive. Many Dutch go there. Because my wife is Indonesian and just got here 7 years ago, its more logical to make the choice for Indonesia / Bali. So, in other words, your effords are being much appriciated by me and I guess by many other people, because their choices are also based on what you and onther members (like Bert and Sanurian f.i.) tell about live on Bali. So thanks again!
:D

I would like to end my brief story with the next statement:

VOTE FOR ROY AS GOUVENER OF BALI!
(do you have a gouvener overthere/..) :P

regards,
Jos.

Many thanks Jos for your letter of appreciation...and your vote for governor! :)

The reality is that most expats here in Bali are very open and helpful to one another. My wife and I have made many friends here from all over the world, and I have come to really appreciate that aspect of life on Bali.

I agree with you about the equal desirability of Thailand and I’m fairly certain that if we didn’t live on Bali, we would be living there. There are a great many similarities between Thai and Balinese culture, and the people of Thailand have that same zest and joy of life that is so often conveyed by a warm smile.

Many thanks again for your kind words and the best of luck with your life changes. In the end, you will likely say what I have been saying for years, and that is my only regret is that I didn’t make this change sooner.

Thanks Roy.

Jimbo, I’m sorry, as I surely did not mean to seem that I was talking around you. Many thanks for your kind words.

I agree with you that there is a lot of repetition on this forum, but I don’t agree that previously discussed topics should necessarily be archived.

New folks come and go here all the time. That’s the nature of a forum. For “regulars” like you, (and me), I agree that can produce boredom, but on the other hand I think we have a duty to all these new folks. If you think about it, that's why they came here in the first place. If you think about it a little more, that's what drew you, and me here as well.

Have a good week up there in SA. I'm still holding a good bottle of single malt that has your name on it.

:cry: :cry: :cry: (tears of joy)

I'm here because you people are soooooo nice, lovely, etc, etc, etc....... But everybody seems to promise each-other only whiskey/martinis! When I make the big move there, I'll be sending you all invitations for a BIG get together!! And it won't just be whiskey/martini on the drinks menu! :wink: