Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

I hope you are right Roy but I fear not. The child has to choose at maturity. A difficult thing to do.

Jimbo, you worry too much!

The children from mixed-marriage can stay in Indonesia until 18 (used to be 21) years old when they will be required to choose which nationality of their parents they'd like to follow.
Actually, I do have a letter from the Indonesian Embassy in Rome, announcing this but I can't find it right now. More or less around that age, Jimbo.

cnkad wrote:My indonesian husband, (who just received his US citizen ship) wants to move back to indonesia for around 3 - 5 years (possibly longer?) I have no idea what kind of visa we would need. Since he is not an indonesian citizen anymore will this be very complicated? I have read some information on expats moving to indonesia, but our situation seems a little different. Does anyone have any advice on where to start? Terima Kasih.

Cnkad is asking about a visa where her husband already gave up his citizenship. I believe the visa your husband needs is a VITAS. This is a 12 month visa and is the one used for people wishing to repatriate to Indonesia. You may not work (as in be employed), but you can conduct business as a foreign investor. You should also be able to go in on the same type of visa. You both would need to leave every 12 months and get a renewal.

If your husband wanted to get his Indonesian citizenship back, he would have to go through the same 5 years and expense as any other non-Indonesian.

ON the subject of having two passports, all the rich Indonesian boys driving around in their sportscars here in Perth have Australian citizenship and Indonesian citizenship. They are from very rich families. Say no more.

There are a few logistical considerations as well in terms of travel. E.g. you can't leave Indonesia and never arrive anywhere - Immigrassi look for your arrival stamp into another country. If it is missing, they know you went in on another passport. So you have to always travel at least 2 legs, say via Singapore. Quite an inconvenience for the young lads here who have to go to Singapore and then Jakarta.

I beg to differ, Freogirl, on Indonesian passport have to have a departure stamp by the Immigration in the country you're departing from.
Again, based on experience only and I can even show you the numbered pages in it, leaving Italy in Oct. 2006, no departure stamp given on leaving and I entered Jakarta with no problem at all.
I have other stamps on it from S.Korea's Incheon Airport in 2002-2003.
Then leaving for UK Dec. 2005 and July 2006 re-entry from UK.
Jakarta's Cengkareng, arrival Oct. 2006, leaving Dec. 2006.
Singapore's Changi, entry and departure Dec. 2006.
That's all.
But no stamp on my leaving Italy for Indonesia via Frankfurt which I find it strange.

Milan, what I wrote was "you can't leave Indonesia and never arrive anywhere - Immigrassi look for your arrival stamp into another country". I think you are giving me an example of when you returned to Indonesia, which is not the issue.

The issue is:
You leave Indonesia on your Indonesian passport, you use your other passport to enter the other country (which you have to do as it provides your right of entry).
1. some countries don't allow you to change passports in mid air.
2. If the country allows it, you don't get a stamp in your Indonesian passport that you arrived.
The work-around - do 2 legs - Jakarta - Singapore on Indonesian passport. Singapore to whereever on other passport.
Returning to Indonesia is not such a problem. You depart on your Indo passport and arrive into Indo on your Indo passport.

Immigrassi do check (albeit not always) where you have been, they look for the stamp showing when you exited Indonesia and where you went to. If they can't find an entry stamp into another country they ask questions.

It is how someone I know was caught with dual nationality, detected by Jakarta Immigrasi.

I do not advocate any of this. I had the opportunity to get dual nationality and decided it conflicted with my integrity. I am just recounting one of the issues if you try it. Each to their own.

Thanks for that explanation, Freogirl.

All you need to know as a foreigners before entering Indonesia

http://www.embassyofindonesia.org/consular/consular.htm

I was thinking a while about this thread technically beside the (let’s say) legal difficulties.

Technically it is impossible to change passports “mid air”.
Let’s say you want to leave Indonesia on your Indonesian passport to the EU, then you will have to apply for a Visa, which you won’t get with your personal data recorded in EU as a citizen of the EU, without valid documents for the country of request no airline in the world will let you boarding the plane.

Ok, then via Singapore, you must enter Singapore, because for transit only it would also not work, leave the airport in Singapore and then, the next day show up with an UK passport to fly to London?
Your British passport is missing the entry stamp for Singapore.
To “lose”a passport and get a substitute could probably solve this, but how many times can you do this?

Milan – why should you get a departure stamp in Frankfurt to Jakarta?
They don’t care where you are going, your Indonesian passport (or any other passport out of EU) will be scanned at arrival, your visa data is central stored, the customs, the police can always check the status of your visa by accessing the central data server, of course you won’t have a problem in Jakarta, simply because they know about this.

The question is, how is anybody able to keep Indonesian citizenship and passport valid beside having already another citizenship (yes, I know it’s illegal Jimbo), that would be a very interesting trick?!

Best regards
Thorsten

Thorsten, I should have gotten the stamp in Frankfurt as that was the last city of Europe that I departed from to Asia as my next destination (Jakarta). Not that I am unhappy about it, on the contrary. From Milan to Frankfurt, there was no need for a stamp as it is within Europe.
This means Singapore does not really care where one flies in from --- as they do not ask for the stamp of the place of one's last Embarkation place, but the form that was given in the plane before landing where you do have to declare, is sufficient. Jakarta too does not request to show the stamp of it on your passport and just give the arrival stamp. Don't forget that I'm still an Indonesian citizen, thus, owning an Indonesian passport.

Only when I departed from Jakarta and stopped in Singapore for 10 days, did Jakarta Airport stamped my exit, then Singapore stamped my entry and exit.

Back in Frankfurt on the way back to Milan as a transit, no entry/arrival stamp given at all.

HOWEVER, at the check-in in Singapore on my return to Italy and at the immigration in Frankfurt on my departure to Indonesia, they did require me to show my staying permit here in Italy which is called "Permesso Soggiorno" as a proof that I am a resident of Milan, Italy.

Hope this helps clarify the confusion.

Thorsten

It would solve a lot of my current problems if it was possible to have dual nationality

milan wrote:HOWEVER, at the check-in in Singapore on my return to Italy and at the immigration in Frankfurt on my departure to Indonesia, they did require me to show my staying permit here in Italy which is called "Permesso Soggiorno" as a proof that I am a resident of Milan, Italy.

That's my point Milan,
there is no chance at all to board a plane without a valid visa/staying permit from the country you intend to fly to.

Jan 2006 (threads due to this are in the archives) I went to Bali via Hong Kong, after spending 5days in Hong Kong I cued for check in – then a big surprise!
“You will not go to Indonesia with this passport” was what the lady at the Cathay Pacific counter told me – so what happened?

For Indonesia you need a six month valid passport at the day of arrival, when I left Frankfurt my passport had this, but then (stupidly) after five days in Hong Kong the passport had expired exactly one day before this six months period – my check in was refused.
“Get me on this plane and I will solve the problem in Indonesia” I begged her, but the airline is not allowed to carry passengers without valid documents, the airline would be fined for this and also held responsible for all costs of deportation and so, ergo no airline will do this!

Best regards
Thorsten

That's my point Milan,
there is no chance at all to board a plane without a valid visa/staying permit from the country you intend to fly to.

Then why did Germany allow you in the first place to fly to HK seeing (not seeing?) that your passport was going to be valid less than the minimum 6 months required by the time you reach your destination, in this case, HK?
Thus for HK's refusal for you to fly to Indonesia/wherever it maybe, as one CAN NOT travel with less than 6 months validity on the passport.
So, did you have to return to Germany?
I could only imagine it must have been such frustration/a DRAG for you.

Hong Kong wasn’t the problem Milan, could have gone anywhere – Thailand, Malaysia, whatever, but not Indonesia (only they want a six months valid passport at arrival).

I checked in to Hong Kong with final destination Bali, at that time the passport was 6 months valid, yes would have been easier somebody from Cathay Pacific would have pointed on this problem in Frankfurt, but in fact they are not responsible.

No didn’t went back to Germany of course not, rebooked my flight, booked another hotel for two nights, shuttle back to HK, some phone calls and some frustrated forum postings, the whole night on a binge tour with an Aussie guy, then next morning to the German consulate and got a substitute passport, which was a tremendous job they did, since there was only one hour time due to difference of time to Germany (when they open in Hong Kong, one hour later they are closing already in Germany), the day after I got my flight to Bali, where Bert was already waiting for me for two days!

Would have been much cheaper to solve the problem the “Indonesian way” I guess.