Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

[Roy]

And it's about freaking time too!

http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=4551

[Adam]

According to the radio here in WA, the pressures on the Aussie government to do the same and get rid of their ridiculous travel warning to Indonesia. I hope so....and quickly, it undoubtably has hurt the Bali travel industry with a whole lot less Aussies going there.

[Roy]

If I recall correctly, your past PM, John Howard used to be criticized a lot for “following Bush, Jr. on his coat tails.” Your new PM has vowed not to do that, (good for him), but I hope you are right, and that Australia also drops the travel warning.

On the note of Australian tourism to Bali, this is certainly a high note:

http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=4546

This, by the way, could also be another high note for restoring faith and confidence in Australia in so far as travel to Bali is concerned. Having something, even so little as this justice hopefully provides some bit of closure for the family and friends of the victims of this senseless tragedy.

http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=4544

[Sanurian]

What the hell does this mean, Roy?

This, by the way, could also be another high note for restoring faith and confidence in Australia in so far as travel to Bali is concerned. Having something, even so little as this justice hopefully provides some bit of closure for the family and friends of the victims of this senseless tragedy.

I can't, don't and wouldn't presume to speak for 'all Australians', but just let me say one thing. 'Australians' I know don't turn their tails up and run away from 'terrorist threats' or even 'government warnings'. I think you'll find that in the wake of various Bali bombings, tourist arrivals from most countries went down, and understandably so. You'll probably also find that, again not unexpectedly, Australians are still coming here in increasing numbers despite 'official warnings' to reconsider. Just like warnings from the USA.

Governments modifying their travel warnings does not prove that a travel destination is actually safer than before. That's just wishful thinking. In this day and age, we take our chances wherever we go, or choose to live.

I fail to see how a few downgraded warnings in any way

...provides some bit of closure...

Are you seriously suggesting that the Bali bomb victims, their friends and relatives, should now feel better because of some specious travel warnings?

There are riots in Jakarta going on right now about the impending fuel price increase. The 'richest' man in Indonesia, is also in charge of 'welfare', for a second year in a row. That nasty Bashir fellow in Solo is still out of jail and fermenting violence against 'infidels', (the government seems to be reluctant to put him on ice forever...I wonder why?). And so it goes on and on, with no end in sight.

I guess that's Indonesia...we're standing in it.

[Roy]

"Are you seriously suggesting that the Bali bomb victims, their friends and relatives, should now feel better because of some specious travel warnings?"

Phil, re-read my post again...two or three times may be best for you. I clearly made my "closure" comments in regards to the execution of the three Bali bombers!

Is my use of the English language that hard for you to understand?

Believe it or not Phil, there are still many Australians who have never been to Bali, and when they consider a trip here...(currently much more attractive given the strength of the OZ dollar), they often express trepidation. You can read this for yourself on other forums relating to Bali with oft asked questions...is Bali safe?

[Sanurian]

Sorry, Roy

You're right. I'm still fighting off a bout of 'flu and feel like I'm dying.

So - When are those guys going to executed?

The local police in Sanur reckon the sooner the better and I certainly wasn't going to get into a disagreement with them about that.

On the other hand...I have reservations about capital punishment. Two wrongs don't make a right...something like that.

Excuse me while I blow my nose again.
Oops - There goes another rain-forest somewhere.

[Roy]

No problem Phil.

This flu that’s been going around is brutal...as you know all too well. Forum member Tony from Hawaii was just here, and he was knocked out by it as well. He ended up at the Ubud clinic and was told this bug is everywhere, and so it seems it is as Rama is now down for the count, which only means Bima and Komang will soon follow.

Someone turned me on to taking Zinc tablets right at the first indications that something may be on the horizon. That’s seems to help, but the Doc’s told Tony, nothing really to do except ride it out and drink plenty of water...and then some more water.

I’m with you in that I also have reservations about capital punishment. As you know, this isn’t on the books in OZ, but something tells me there won’t be much, if any dissent from there when those bullets leave their muzzle and find their mark.

In my view, Indonesia has no choice but to carry out the sentence as handed down by the courts. To do anything otherwise will only cause criticism and fear that Indonesia is not serious about combating terrorism.

I highly doubt we will know in advance the final day set for the executions, but rather will only learn about it once it is over. In a way, that seems merciful, as the alternative...like in many states in the US that have capital punishment, the prisoner is told well in advance of the actual date, and they just have to sit and count down the hours.

[chickchili]

I’m with you in that I also have reservations about capital punishment. As you know, this isn’t on the books in OZ, but something tells me there won’t be much, if any dissent from there when those bullets leave their muzzle and find their mark.

Its been a long time since I've posted but Roy I wanted to discuss this from your post.
Australia as a society has rejected Capital Punishment and it is only a vocal (and media active) few who continue to show support for the Death Penalty. And while there are some parents of Bali Bombing victims who have demanded that those convicted be killed as soon as possible there are many others amongst them, including survivors who are appalled at the punishment. Brian Deegan whose son Josh was killed at the Sari Club has been very vocal about his disgust that other people should be murdered in the name of his deceased son. Personally I don't want it believed that the Bali Bombers will be executed to appease Australia. It wont bring closure for me. What would bring closure for me would be to know that the politics and belief systems that contribute to the perpetuation of gross acts of violence no longer have currency.

[Roy]

Great to have you posting again.

My view is pretty simple on this. If I could trust the Indonesia government to keep these guys locked up in the worse prison in Indonesia until the day they died of natural causes, then I might agree that would be a more fitting punishment.

These are all young men, and in 30 years, they would only be in their 50’s and possibly be free men.

Closure for Australians is just one part of this, albeit a very large part, as those killed came from all over the world, including 38 Indonesians:

http://www.indo.com/bali121002/inmemoriam.html

Capital punishment is the law here in Indonesia. Indonesia has NO other choice but to execute these men.

That being said, I could not agree with you more in so far as what the ultimate closure to this could be:

“...that the politics and belief systems that contribute to the perpetuation of gross acts of violence no longer have currency.”

[BaliLife]

I believe in capital punishment, and more so believe that the only problem with capital punishment is that it is not used nearly enough.

If a dog bites a child, they put it down - there's no difference. A human being's feeling that a human life is of greater significance than a canine life is slightly biased - I'm sure the dog doesn't see it that way.

Capital punishment is just, equitable and makes economic sense. I don't see anything wrong with taking the life of one who has illegally taken the life of another.

Bryant, Milat - to name just two. I'd like to castrate the two of them with a blunt serated knife before seeing them hung, drawn and quartered.

I volunteer for the job!

Ct

[Jimbo]

I volunteer for the job!

I doubt it. killing someone in cold blood is not an easy thing to do especially when you have to get up close and personal. As an ex soldier I witnessed some deaths and threw up at some of the things I have seen. (none of which I will discuss)

Much as anger can give these kind of emotions the act itself is sickening. I do not believe in capital punishment but do believe in imprisonment which for me is far worse.

[mimpimanis]

Capital punishment is just, equitable and makes economic sense. I don't see anything wrong with taking the life of one who has illegally taken the life of another.

That MAY be well and good if the conviction is 100% but what if it isnt?

[Roy]

That MAY be well and good if the conviction is 100% but what if it isnt?

Are you doubting for one second that the Bali bombers aren't guilty, or, what are you saying Mimpi?

[BaliLife]

Or Bryant or Milat? Both guilty beyond doubt.

While I admire the discipline of the cops who took Bryant into custody, I wish one of them had put one square between his eyes. There would've been no outcry from the public, even if he was out of amunition or unarmed. Bryant chased little children behind trees before shooting them to death at point blank range with a machine gun. Like I said, hang the SOB by his own intestines.

Milat raped young girls and made their paralyzed partners watch (in some cases) - he took life as though it was his to take. For that, society should take his.

I think organized, responsible societies such as Australia and Canada (and of course Singapore) can and should have the right to decide through the correct juducuary procedures if an individual has the right to live or not.

BRING BACK THE CHAIR!
BRING BACK THE CHAIR!
BRING BACK THE CHAIR!

Ct

[mimpimanis]

No Roy - not the Bali Bombers but re Captial punishment in general.

My brother is a Senior Prison Officer in UK and I hear through him of cases where the conviction is overturned or doubted.

Too late if the guilty party has already been executed.

[BaliLife]

...and I hear through him of cases where the conviction is overturned or doubted.

Yes, but these situations are mostly not because they didn't do it, but because they were able to prove that they were high at the time, etc - in which case I think the bastards should still get the chair! Would the bali bombers be any less deserving of the firing squad if it was established they smoked a joint before they took the lives of 200 innocent people? I think not.

Ct