Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

[drbruce]

Based on what I've seen in Sumbawa over the past five years, better roads mean less accidents. Two of the three accidents that I've had have been because I applied the breaks on a gravel road and lost control of the bike in a skid to avoid some wildlife. The third was a wild boar charging out of the bush. The road surface wouldn't have made any difference.

But, I've seen fools in Sumbawa doing 90 on gravel roads so again, I'd argue that the road surface doesn't make much difference; if someone is intent on going fast ,they will.

[Sanurian]

Some of us are still waiting, Roy.
Your silence is deafening.

...as I'm just passing on these words. As you know, I have never driven in Bali, and I never will.

Probably can't drive in the first place.

My theory, "Amigo", is that you made up that so-called email. It's your writing style and the grasp of basic physics is coterminous with what I imagine your maths skills are.

Come on...just come clean. Show us some "proof". It doesn't really hurt. This is cyber-space, remember?
Looking forward to your response.

[SG]

I was in a cab today in Mangga Dua and.

I've only been there once.. I hope I see hell before I get dragged back there again

Ct

I love Mangga Dua (just as I love much of what Jakarta is..it's one of the world's great cities, albeit often more in potential than fact). The markets there are the best in South East Asia IMO.

[ronb]

I have been away while this thread grew, but have now skimmed through it. Everyone seems to assume that 222 deaths in 5 months is worse than death rates elsewhere. Bert gave some figures mainly comparing with Europe.

I have just had a go at comparisons:
Bali, with 222 deaths in 5 months and assuming a population of 3.5 million has 15 deaths per 100,000 people per year
US (using figures from http://www.safecarguide.com/exp/statistics/statistics.htm) had 40,676 deaths in 1994, and assuming a population of 300 million has 13 per 100,000 people per year
Australia (using figures from the above source) had 1,768 deaths in 1997, and assuming a population or 20 million has 8 deaths per 100,000 per year

So Bali figures are not that alarming. But someone also noted that the Bali figures may not count all the deaths, so that may increase it by maybe 10% or even 20%.

[BaliLife]

just as I love much of what Jakarta is..it's one of the world's great cities, albeit often more in potential than fact

mmm, i can see that - the potential i mean.. but i wouldnt say it's one of the world's great cities - perhaps one of the world's most 'interesting cities'.. but hey, that's all a matter of opinion..

regarding mangga dua, i still hate the place all i remember is the thousands of people sweating and negotiating for crappy imitation bags.. not even good imitations, terrible imitations.. but the computing section with all the pirated software was interesting

ct

[milan]

Didn't know what Mangga Dua was until the sister of my sister-in-law invited me to go there with her nieces when I was in Jkt Nov. 2006.
They warned that it was going to be hot. But surprisingly, although I was wearing a stretch long sleeves top and pants, it didn't affect me whatsoever.
Perhaps because whatever I touched, my hostess paid for them surreptitiously and also whatever I chose, the ladies around me wanted them also including a pair of sunglasses which until now I never wore.
It was a nice experience!

[SG]

just as I love much of what Jakarta is..it's one of the world's great cities, albeit often more in potential than fact

mmm, i can see that - the potential i mean.. but i wouldnt say it's one of the world's great cities - perhaps one of the world's most 'interesting cities'.. but hey, that's all a matter of opinion..

regarding mangga dua, i still hate the place all i remember is the thousands of people sweating and negotiating for crappy imitation bags.. not even good imitations, terrible imitations.. but the computing section with all the pirated software was interesting

ct

If you get there again, try moving away from the ground floor of the ITC (which is where the bags are)..go up in that building and it gets more interesting. The glasses on Lantai dua and tiga are great...real (not copy) sunglasses in the hundreds of thousands at a fraction of the price you'll find them elsewhere. Also try the other malls..the WTC has young designers and others have factory outlets for the factories out in the satellite cities making stuff for Europe. There is so much to find.

Jakarta..yeah I guess I love it. For a wonderful experience get a cab (and get him to wait) whilst you explore the old fort by the harbour and wander around the streets there and the harbour itself. Or visit the Jakarta museum in Kota on a Sunday when the locals are out. I was there there last Sunday again and it was alive. There is an incredible reformasi exhibition in there right now.

[milan]

Jakarta..yeah I guess I love it. For a wonderful experience get a cab (and get him to wait) whilst you explore the old fort by the harbour and wander around the streets there and the harbour itself. Or visit the Jakarta museum in Kota on a Sunday when the locals are out. I was there there last Sunday again and it was alive. There is an incredible reformasi exhibition in there right now.

I second that. And there's a Restaurant called Batavia in Kota after the old main train station. Don't know if it's still there as I didn't go there on my last visit. Did you see it/try?
I know the owner.

[SG]

So Bali figures are not that alarming. But someone also noted that the Bali figures may not count all the deaths, so that may increase it by maybe 10% or even 20%.

Yes, as said above they seem only to count those on vehicles, not pedestrians or those that die more than a few days after.

But I think the real damage is probably being done in the injuries not the deaths. I see accidents almost every day and most seem not to be fatal (although I see those too, and at a rate I've never encountered in the west). On our little street alone last month there were five bad injuries on bikes.

A friend who works in a medical unit here tells of horrendous bike injuries all the time which were mostly preventable. Of kids with mashed faces and surfers with skin torn from shoulders.

The driving here (and I mean Indonesia not just Bali) is absolutely atrocious..far worse than anywhere else I've been (I've just spent a week driving in Malaysia..what a pleasure) and it doesn't need to be. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves IMO.

Why are education, enforcement (which would pay for the first) and basic road maintenance so hard?

[SG]

I second that. And there's a Restaurant called Batavia in Kota after the old main train station. Don't know if it's still there as I didn't go there on my last visit. Did you see it/try?
I know the owner.

I've been there before...yes it's still there and quite lovely...you expect to see Somerset Maughn or Noel Coward there. But very pricey.

[milan]

SG wrote:

you expect to see Somerset Maughn or Noel Coward there. But very pricey.

You've put it so accurately. It is lovely though pricey. It's more a place of the haves and be seen at one time. Don't know now.