Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

[Person]

Good advice from http://www.expat.or.id:

Do be careful, however, about bogus officials wanting to check your documents. You should always ask for a 'surat tugas' which is the letter from their office detailing what they are allowed to do in the field. If they don't have a surat tugas ... it would be wise to not show them anything! Ask them to return once they have the surat tugas. Or, refer them to the working spouse's office for any further needed information on documentation.

And by no means pay any bribes to these officials. It would only ensure their repeated return to your place of residence, or encourage them to prey on other unsuspecting foreigners. Again, if you are here legally and have the documents to prove it ... there is nothing to fear. If you are approached or threatened by suspicious persons try to get their names, affiliations and contact numbers.

Formalities of registering your presence aside you have the right to stay wherever you want. Indonesia successfully controls the movement of its own population by imposing travel restrictions using the KTP, KIPEM and Surat Jalan documents but these restrictions don't apply to tourists except in declared areas such as Papua.

And for those wanting to raise the ugly head of Islamaphobia again when exactly was was the last time a foreigner was "arrested" for staying with his Muslim girlfriend?

Clearly you need to stand up for your rights or else people will walk all over you.

[Roy]

GREAT post Allan....exactly what I wanted to add, so, many thanks for already hitting the nail on the head!

I’m afraid that both umiserge and balimudder were had...totally had, and that is a terrible thing.

Personally, I am in a very lucky situation in that given my own situation, I am never "preyed" upon.

Allan may have his own good ideas about how to "stand up" and Phil, Bert, as well as others too, but if this happened to me, I would simply call the head office of Polda in Gianyar (our regency seat) to first verify the identity of the "policemen" harassing me, and make an appointment to be in his office first thing the next morning.

In any event, never, ever pay a “fine” on the spot and out of an official office. Once again, great post Allan.

[vicnxtine]

Hi,
Just wanna share.... My husband, was my boyfriend... stayed for 5 weeks in my parents house. 3 weeks before the wedding and 2 weeks after. But it is in Java. My step father make a report to the police office ( I guess it is the same whereever you stay in Indonesia) so they know that we 'kept' bule in our house!
But sharing room with your girl friend it'll be different, I guess, at least in Java. Because people don't take couple without marriage living together in one room eventhough for a short time. People watch other..... That's part of the culture (in Java). Yes! sure ... many do live together but they do it secretly if I may say and in hotel or so.... not in 'kost' room.
Anyway.... I don't know how's in Bali. But I guess hindus also not agree with couple staying/living together without marriage.
If I were you I would just stay in cheapest motel u can find... it might give you better feeling than living in your girlfriend's room....
Have a nice vacation...

Christine

[pPamela]

When I stay on my 'adopted' Indonesian grandmother's rice farm in Muara Labuh ( 4 hrs from Padang) in West Sumatra I always take myself down to the police station and register myself with a member of the family- one who can speak some English.
I became known to the police in 2000 when I was staying at a traveller's hotel in Muara Labuh, but the owner did not record my details and the police stopped me whilst out on a motor bike with my Indonesian friend. We had to visit the police station about 4 times, over the next few days, but NO money passed hands.
Now I always visit the police station within a couple of hours of arriving and register.
Most times the police don't really seem that interested to do what they need to do.
Pamela- sadly back in Sydney working again after a fab 5.5 months travelling around Indonesia in 2006.

[spitfire]

Yesterday our friend from Holland arrived who will stay with us for a few months. Today she went to the police in Nusa Dua to register and had to pay Rp. 15.000. She gave a note of 20.000 and the man didn't even bother to look for change. So she left and that was it. Thanks to this string it was brought to my attention to have her register.

[Sanurian]

...Regarding umiserge’s post, I have NEVER heard of a story even remotely like this...

Well, Amigo, it happens more than you think, so you have now.

Not long after I moved into my newly built house in Bantul (Yogyakarta) with my Indonesian wife, in whose name the house was, we got a visit from some real police (from Bantul). At first, they were "friendly" and just sniffing around, I guess...perhaps trying to figure out what kind of scam they could pull on us. They visited a few times, ate our food, drank a few free beers, until one morning when they arrived and told my wife that because she hadn't reported herself to them, she had the "options" that umiserge mentions.

I'll never forget the encounter because at the time, I was having a shower upstairs and my wife told me the cops had turned nasty and were threatening her. I was extremely angry, slammed the door of the bathroom and descended upon them with no mercy in mind. After all, we were "friends", right? and they'd already assured us there were no problems. I forget exactly what we paid them but it was far less than what they wanted and I effectively kicked them out of our house and made it as clear as possible that they weren't welcome to "visit" in the future. Amazingly, it worked.

I had another "problem" with the police in Bantul later when my young, half-Balinese son came to visit. I became so incensed that I actually stormed into some kind of big meeting at the police station and demanded to know what the hell the "problem" was. My wife was frightened; I persevered. It was when I was almost about to tear a Rp 50,000 note in halves (one bit for the police, the other for me...a long story), and alleging they were all "corrupt", that they all backed down. I wasn't arrested and had no more "visits" from any of them.

Several weeks later, we both agreed that we'd had enough of living in our pretty house in Java and moved back to Bali. It took us two years to sell our house there; not long after, Bantul (and Yogyakarta) were hit by a destructive earthquake. Perhaps ironically, only three houses in our entire village were left standing: ours, and those of two immediate neighbours. How's that for "karma"?

[UMISERGE]

Phil, good points about some of the more strict areas of Islamic Indonesia, but unless I am mistaken, Adam’s post was about his return visit to Bali.

Regarding umiserge’s post, I have NEVER heard of a story even remotely like this. If you know the law, then you know the law for registering guests does not apply to the guest, but only applies to the owner of the property in which the guest is to reside. This registration, should be made at the nearest police station within 24 hours. This law does not apply to the guest! I have never heard of a guest being fined, threatened with jail time, or threatened to be deported for the failure of their resident host to register them with the local police.

Umiserge, whatever it was that happened to you, clearly you were the victim of a con.

Even expats who live here year after year must be registered again, upon their return, if they leave the country.

yess Roy according to goverment law cause there mention also could report to LOCAL APARATUR/pejabat setempat so i'm just make report to Kepala desa but you know it's not enought for "people who always look a western is ATM" so they are making chance to stealing money.

[drbruce]

Well, you never know what's going on sometimes. Of course, maybe I'm just an aging old math/anthropology/computer teacher who is heavily preoccupied with work-related things. All this to say that I mentioned this thread to my wife who informed me that she has been reporting my presence in our house in Bali for years. Something she never bothered to tell me because, in true Indonesian fashion, she didn't want to worry me. She stops by the Lurah's office to let him know that we are back in town, and he does the rest. So, after almost 18 years here, I find out something new. It's a great life.

[FreoGirl]

I'm not adding anything new - I agree it is correct that the owner of your girlfriend's rented room would be responsible for reporting you to the local police, and I also agree he/she is 1. probably not going to be happy that you are staying there and 2. probably not going to want to report to the police. So it could be sticky if you've got to do it yourself, given you are not married to your girlfriend.

My main concern however is whether you've thought about the consequences for your girlfriend after you leave if you live with her for a few weeks. It is not generally socially acceptable for unmarried women to have men stay with them - they are classed as naughty girls by the locals. Are you going to ruin her reputation?

You really need to think about being a bit more discreet. Bali is not the same as a western country, particularly when it comes to this sort of thing.

It would be better if you got that losmen and she came and stayed with you.

[manc in oz]

It would be better if you got that losmen and she came and stayed with you.

I agree Freogirl, it would be much easier. Hell, why don't you treat her to a hotel.

[Person]

My main concern however is whether you've thought about the consequences for your girlfriend after you leave if you live with her for a few weeks. It is not generally socially acceptable for unmarried women to have men stay with them - they are classed as naughty girls by the locals. Are you going to ruin her reputation?

Even in Bali there are girls who aren't "suci saja" but I think what FreoGirl says is generally very true. Strangely enough it seems to be ok for the guys to have a history including bules and the girls to have a history but not including bules. Maybe there is the underlying suspicion that money changed hands. I don't know but the old double standard is alive and well.
I only ever did it once (stayed with a local girl) but then I married her.

[Adam]

Hi again, sorry have been a bit slow to add further to my posting 'cos stuck out at sea working.

This all seems to be a little bit not worth the effort. As always what should be a simple and harmless exercise (whats the big deal with somebody staying with somebody else? Or anywhere for that matter so long as they're not causing trouble? I pass hundreds of international tourists going up and down our country highways but nobody cares what they are up to, they sleep in carparks, train stations, the beach wherever) seems like it has been over-indonesianised if u know what i mean.

To address Manc, it was her suggestion in the first place that i stay with her this trip, I certainly didn't ask to stay there, in fact I would be more comfortable staying in a hotel with a swim up bar and in house movies (everyone needs a little bit of an escape every now and then) but i guess like most indonesian girls she has simple tastes and always seemed more relaxed when she was at 'home'. She's very excited about being able to cook and fuss over me, but I just want her to relax and have a holiday and do nothing like I will be! I'd like to spoil her rotten and take her somewhere real 'flash' but alas would be wasted coin i think.

And Freogirl I understand what u mean about being discreet but I can tell u it was far easier and far more discreet to be spending time with her at her place than at the hotel. The barrage of questions I have received from hotel staff is embarrasing and the looks from the tourists just as comical. Everybody automatically seems to think the worst anyway, so what does it matter where we are? On the plus side she doesn't seem to give a rats what people think, which i guess is one thing that attracted me to her in the first place. When I had my Balinese girlfriend the attention was painful and I think probably what ultimately killed my interest in her. The scrutiny didn't bother me, but she was always like a cat on a hot tin roof when we went out and did simple things like have dinner or go for a swim. It just stopped being fun.

I understand and completely respect that society's have their own individual values but for goodness sake why can't two people who have a genuine interest in each other be left in peace? Like i said before at least she doesn't seem to be phased by what other peoples opinions are (and especially if it's come from the mouth of a Balinese, i think she cops grief for simply being Javan by some people), that is part of the reason why she left Java in the first place, to experience a bit more freedom. She's adventurous and likes to have fun, what's wrong with that? The reality is she is no different to the majority of other 26 year olds on the planet, it just seems that the older generations in Bali (Indonesia in general maybe?) are afraid of their youth having responsible fun and will take great pleasure in being able to slander a persons character at any possible chance they get. Allan you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned 'double standards' are alive and well. The men seem to be quite proud of and openly discuss promiscuity like its a feather in their cap. But the same blokes i'm sure would be the first ones to badmouth any woman who may or may not be 'up to no good'. Do I want to ruin her reputation? Absolutely not, but from my experience the reputation is unavoidable as soon as a bule has any form of relationship with a local person of the opposite sex. If she doesn't care, then i'm not going to lose sleep over it but if it puts her up as a target for harrassment (or worse) then I certainly don't want to put her at risk. Sorry for venting my spleen, I have digressed big time and I'll step down off my soapbox now, but it is probably the only aspect of Bali that quite frankly gives me the downright sh*ts.

Only 3 days to go and I'm still utterly confused. I guess if someone with a lot more Bali experience (Sanurian???) is willing to just say yay or nay then that will persuade me cos all this information is very helpful but hard to make a decision from. I really look forward to experiencing real day to day living with her but it seems like it might be more trouble than its worth. Perhaps best to wait and see when I get there. What with all this one day cricket on and the first round of footy starting we might be sleeping at the sports bar anyway........

Thanks as always
Adz

[Sanurian]

Hi Adam

I can really appreciate your frustration.

The Balinese male "double standard" is very well known; can be hard to avoid in some areas, no matter what. I've been married twice to Indonesian women. It was often a right pain to walk around in some areas because of the cat-calls, "how much you pay, bule, ?", and so on. There were many times when I nearly lost my temper and wanted to punch somebody out, and stuff the consequences.

While it is possible for a bule to be "mock-arrested" for staying with an unmarried Indonesian woman, it doesn't happen all that much. And if it does, the chances are that the woman involved will bear the brunt of the "consequences". The 'consequences" are usually payment of a "fine", unless the woman has no valid ID and is suspected of being a kupu-kupu malam ("night butterfly"). (Being a Javanese woman in Bali doesn't help, either.)

As you can see, it is by no means an easy thing to give people "advice". Even the "police registration" thing (for you) can be an optional extra. (Plead ignorance and pay if caught out.) Again, it's extremely unlikely that police will land on your doorstep and quizz you as to why you haven't registered yourself with them.

All I can "suggest" is that you be as discrete as you can, don't get angry at crap comments thrown your way and take it from there. If you really like this woman, the "hassles" might be worth all the trouble, in the long run. After all, have you ever wondered how some of us bules managed to get married in the first place?

I hope your trip is a wonderful success!

[Person]

Yes the cat-callers are like the tokek in a villa I rented in Sanur. They think they own the place and they like to crap on you but ultimately they're easily disposed of. You can find my poem on that very topic in the forum.

Speaking of rented villas that's another option you could consider. For example you could rent a villa complete with everything including kitchen for about the same as a middle class tourist hotel. At Laghawa in Sanur there are three or four villas. I have rented one for about A$250/week. And they have great gardens and large pool which you will probably have to yourself.

If you do end up there and in Villa C say hello to the tokek.

[Jimbo]

Go for it and enjoy. The fact that someone wanted to fuss of me and cook for me is just a heavenly thought. It is no real hassle to register with the police and no matter what you think of the rules it is not your country so you just obey.

I am sure it will all be worth it.

[Tinkerbelle]

I never knew it was all so strict in Bali???. When I booked into my hotel I got to the room and Made the guy who carried my cases goes this no good 2 single beds he phoned the front desk and moved me to a room with a double bed and winked and said to me you might get lucky I laughed and told him he was cheeky. I now regularly email Made with funnier requests at the hotel for future trips. I have a good male friend in bali and no one at his work or the hotel make either of us feel uncomfortable.