Abuse of freedom in Bali Restaurants!

As a long-time resident here I would love to hear any intelligent/reasonable reason as to just WHY so very many of you visitors from other countries (Australians seemingly leading) who would not dream of flouting the law or risk annoying other diners in your own country, show a total lack of consideration for others in lighting up your first cigarette immediately you are seated and continue to do so despite obvious signs of discomfort from others until you pay your bill and leave. Is it simply because you can? Could it be a childish raised finger to your home government and the protests of non-smokers there? There are no laws here regarding 'smoking' and 'non-smoking' areas in restaurants but some of the better ones are now starting to provide this and it is a tendency which should be encouraged and nurtured, your understanding would greatly help those of us who prefer to breath normal clean air to enjoy an evening at a restaurant. You could, after all, simply continue as you do at home - go outside when you feel the need for your drug and not force it, second-hand, on others :!: :evil: :shock: Perhaps you smokers should also realize that, in the event you do manage to quit, it is another TEN YEARS before your lungs are clean enough to be considered 'safe' from the dreaded "Big C" :!: Many of us did not make it that long and are now paying.

[bolli]

Owwwwwwwwww :roll:
Sorry but yes, we do get a bit miffed that we can still buy cigarettes but are banned from smoking them anywhere, so when we come to Bali and 95% seem to be puffing away , we just embrace it.
We are not flouting any laws and I am trying to quit , I must admit.
I do go outside to puff at a restaurant unless the joint is mostly empty.
How delightful of you to make your first post so friendly. :evil: :evil:

[Tommy]

I always have to leave whenever someone lights up a cigarett coz of my respiratory problems... and as you might understand this means ALOT of walking out on things for me. For an example i can only visit some internet-cafés when there are no smokers inside or have been for a few hours so the air is clean. When they start "puffin" i reluctantly have to leave within a few minutes. :oops:

An angry first post Colin.. welcome! :P

[Davo]

Hello Colinf, To tell you the truth ive never given it much thought.

Most restaurants i go to are outside so never even thought about it.

Rest assured next time im in a restaurant in bali i will do poll of the surounding people so not to offend.

Bolli...I had not intended that my post should be unfriendly - turned out a bit that way though, didn't it? Sorry. However, it does make me rather upset, on the occasions that we go out for a meal, to have the next table fill up with lit up smokers within seconds of our meal arriving. Sometimes it's possible to move to another table, but often the only recourse is to take the meal as 'bunkus' - the doggy-bag - and leave. (In which case it invariably does end up as a welcome snack for the dog!)
Tommy...thank you for the welcome and again, apologies for the anger. You would appear to suffer similar problems to me in close proximity to second-hand cigarette smoke - I choke up and usually can hardly speak. I have to admit to being an ex - or "reformed" - smoker(a very long time back) and like all such, am possibly worse than those who've never smoked, but can somebody please give me one good reason why I cannot enjoy a good restaurant/pub free from toxic assault? And why should I be rudely glared at simply because I get up and move to a table away from their smoke? All we ask is an area barred to smokers and with an effective extractor fan or two. Is that too much to ask, just too much of an investment for the proprietor? After all, should we not, as guests in this country, be showing our Indonesian/Balinese friends by our own example how our culture respects the rights and expectations of all? Sadly many tourists and expats seem to leave those principles in the customs hall on arrival. Think on it.

[Tommy]

I reckon it's a tricky, but necessary, balance for business-owners in Bali to consider enforcing non-smoking or at least.. designated areas for smokers & non-smokers. The process for a full-scale ban on smoking in public places as resturants, bars, internet cafés are currently in the hands of the owners and for them to decide and set out the rules. I would surely welcome a nation-wide ban on smoking in public places but i'm not sure if this is plausible in Indonesia as the tobacco-industry is very strong and implementation might be difficult.. as grass-root problem. We got a nation-wide ban on smoking in public places (as restaurants, bars etc) just last year here in Sweden and it seem to be working out quite fine.. but Sweden can't be compared to Indonesia as there are way to many factors that differ. One thing for sure, if i'd consider having a "public" busines in Bali there would surely be either strict non-smoking or designated areas in the masterplan. :)

[Git]

Welcome Colin
I agree totally with you
the disrespect of those that smoke is baffling to me,Just reading this post gave me a cigg.headace !
In calif. there is a mandetory bad of no smoking everywhere,even on the beaches. Its been wonderfull,the reason for this bill passing is due to the employees in bars getting respiratory ailments due to secondarysmoke inhalation.
I have never smoked,never will,and will never marry any one that smokes. When you smoke you are invading someones private airspace,the stink lingers in your hair and clothing.
When i did volunteer work in bali,it was a constant problem as the owner of the clinic smoked like a chimmney,her office stunk of fungus ciggs.(can you imagine smoking in a health clinic?) The drivers i hired all smoked,and me complaining helped none. The daily headaces i suffered from were all due to cigg. smoke. Yes your message was a bit extreme but i know where you are comming from.
In europe it was the same,smoking was even worse there,on trains,bus,taxi,bars,dinners,outside inside............yuk!
In bali you might turn away your only customer if you tell them not to smoke,but the sensible thing would be to have a non-smoking section,and smoking section.
Ok enough of my ranting.............sorry folks,sore subject here.
Gina Tyler

[Roy]

I have just a few comments regarding this interesting string.

One is that many, if not the majority of restaurants in Bali are to one degree or another, open air, or at least partially open air. Few restaurants are completely enclosed excepting those in Denpasar, or those within large resorts. Non smokers may consider to never, if possible, be seated in the center of restaurants, but closer to the edges, thus closer to the open air.

Collin wrote,

After all, should we not, as guests in this country, be showing our Indonesian/Balinese friends by our own example how our culture respects the rights and expectations of all? Sadly many tourists and expats seem to leave those principles in the customs hall on arrival. Think on it.

OK, I’ve thought on that. “Should we not, as guests in this country, be showing our Indonesian/Balinese friends by our own example how our culture respects the rights and expectations of all?”

I take exception to that on two levels...one, it’s frequently not always the case that our own cultures in fact support equal rights, and secondly, it seems to smack at an inference that the Indonesians and Balinese do not support equal rights...and that we colonials need to show them by example “how it is done.”

No one in their right mind would argue the higher principles inherent within those words, but as it relates to smoking in restaurants, the onus of making the dining experience enjoyable for all diners, smokers and non smokers alike, really falls on the restaurant management, and not the patrons. If you are an expat, and you have a favorite restaurant that you dine at regularly, then encourage the owner/manager to establish a non smoking area if one does not already exist.

For smokers, tobacco use, whether a pipe, a cigar or cigarettes is an essential part of the enjoyment of their dinner. Many diners cannot imagine an after dinner cognac with coffee without their tobacco of choice, and in this case, frequently a cigar.

Tobacco awareness, specifically its detrimental health effects, is slowly increasing in Indonesia. Obviously large American tobacco companies like Phillip Morris are banking that it will take decades for Indonesians to get to the level of “quitting the habit” as present in the US and Europe. Otherwise they wouldn’t have recently purchased a 49% share in Sampoerna. One could argue the morality of an American tobacco conglomerate buying into the tobacco company of an emerging nation all day long. Or is this an example how American culture should be demonstrated to Indonesians? :shock:

[Tommy]

In europe it was the same,smoking was even worse there,on trains,bus,taxi,bars,dinners,outside inside............yuk!

Just defending "our turf" abit here.. :lol: Might i ask what country in Europe you visited?

[Git]

Dear Tommy
I'm half dutch,i lived in the netherlands for 10yrs,travels all over europe.The last horrid 'smoking adventure trip' i remember is holland to france via train in the middle of winter. No non smoking seats were avail. thus i was in a smoking compartment,talk about deprived air...oh my goodness...i was dying.....it was snowing outside but i choose to stand inbetween the two train carts outside for the duration of the trip. Freezing my bones off! but at least i could breath clean air.
I dont even invite smokers over to my house anymore (the past 3 decades) not worth it.
"your body is your temple"............
Respect and honnor your physical,mental and emotional self by not smoking.
Gina Tyler