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Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
For those poor souls (like me) that follow such things, an excerpt from an interesting article out of the Seoul Times:
Property price changes in Indonesia and Malaysia remain unimpressive. Although the national house price index in Indonesia was up 5.2% in nominal terms to end Q-3 2007, the index actually dipped by 1.2% in when adjusted to inflation. In Malaysia, the house price index rose 3.2% (1.7% in real terms) to Q2-2007 from a year earlier.
For those sturdy enough (or bored with their families this Xmas holiday) the entire article can be seen here:
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db ... p?idx=6061
I would be interested to hear from those living there if this reflects their experiences. :roll:
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
I think these markets are value markets, though with limitations on foreign control of land in Indonesia, it's difficult to know when the value will be realized. I'm only certain that one day it will, and that the pressure to allow further foreign control of land will only grow..
ct
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
Time to buy another house.
Regards Jimbo
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
First, sell the one(s) in England?!?
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
BaliLife I think that is an excellent point and I took a while to think about it (or maybe I'm just slow) and it seems that you have hit the nail on its proverbial head. When (not if) the powers that be in Indo decide to allow a more rational foreign land ownership policy the price of land will skyrocket. Just from my short exposure to this forum and several others like it I've gotten a feel for the hunger there is out there to own a chunk of paradise.
So really it's "buy now and takes your chances" and get it dangerous but cheap or buy later and pay a premium for the "security" which, in fact, may not really exist in any developing country (notice, I didn't say 3rd world country).
Don't you just love capitalism? :roll:
Re: RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 0
Originally Posted by Markit
Well I for one fervently hope that the Indonesian government do NOT change their policy for foreign land ownership.
How in the heck do you think Indonesians can ever hope to own their own land (yes Markit it is a dream that everyone has, not just Westerners) if the price of land skyrockets because non-Indonesians want a 'chunk of paradise'. To me it sounds like a few wealthy foreigners get their greedy wishes while millions miss out.
Think about the people who's country it is for a bit. Here's an example for you. My son-in-law needs to live near the tourist areas as that is where he can find work. His wife's village is bang smack in the middle of the tourist area - land prices are such that no-one who doesn't already own land can ever afford to own their own 4 are. Why? because foreigners are willing to pay more than a lifetime's income for the block of land, and do.
If it became easier for foreigners to own land, prices would go up on land even further out from the tourist hubs, making it even harder for locals to own their own land. The futher away they have to live, the more it costs them to get to work, the less chance they will ever get the money together to buy land. Not forgetting that Indonesians rarely have access to a mortgage - they have to actually save up the money before they can buy.
If you want to live in Indonesia, fine. Personally I don't think any Indonesian should sell their land to a foreigner. Lease it if you must, but leases finish and then need to be renegotiated (bringing income to the family that owns the land) or the land is returned to the owner/s.
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
Freo,
I understand your argument against foreign ownership and sympathize with it - as far as it goes. The facts are that the situation the way you describe it is not limited to just Bali, or just Indonesia. or just the developing world or just "Paradise, or just anywhere!
Your description of the difficulties for people trying to get on the property ladder fits as well to people earning $75,000 in London as they do for your son-in-law. Economics will save us all - let me tell you a story:
My parents moved to England in 1971 and bought a house for £4,500 (an accountant earned between £6 and 8K/year just for comparisons sake). At that time in the UK people there all rented colour tvs and videos - don't ask why, they just did. When my father died in 1987 I noticed that they still had the original TV and Video that they had rented back in 71, so with nothing better to do I sat down and calculated that they had paid £6,800 for them over the full term of the rental and that the mortgage on the house still had some to go. What's my point?
Well, the lesson I took from it was that looking back mountains can look like molehills and some molehills, you don't even notice, can be turn into a real bitch to climb.
Increases in house/land prices always bring equal increases in buying power to compensate them - it just takes time, sometimes a lot, sometimes none.
Over the time period I spoke of my parents house appreciated in value to the tune of £85,000 and, needless to say, I called the rental company and told them to come and pick their shitty old TV gear up!
And yes, people can still buy houses and have families and do all the things that normal people do because earnings have been increasing right along side of house/land prices - and accountant today earns about 60,000 a year and that's here in the sticks, in London a lot more, but what a shitty job!
Sorry if I've bored you but it's 1:30 am here and not a creature is stirring, not even a mouse.
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
Sorry the relationship might be a bit confusing in the above post.
The example I gave was for my step-son Heri (my husband's son).
I had started to write about my step-son-in-law (my step-daughter's husband) but the story was long-winded so gave a different example but forgot to change who it was I was writing about. Getting old :roll:
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
Markit, you miss the point. Yes it is hard for anyone starting out to get on the real estate ladder in any country, here in Western Australia it is getting very very difficult due to the mining boom pushing up housing prices to the ridiculous.
So imagine if you take the current situation in England, and then the government changes the laws such that wealthy Chinese and Arabs can come in and buy buy buy, pushing the price of housing to a level that no English citizen (other than a very select few extremely wealthy) can ever afford to buy a home?
Let's say a 10 fold rise in house prices in your suburb occurs, where you are renting. Your rent go up, and everything goes up as it is indexed to the land values. The local stores cater for the new wealthy owners and you can no longer afford to live there. You now have to move further out from the area to somewhere more affordable, but now have to commute for hours each day to work and pay 30% of your income on transport cost.
That is what you were advocating in your post. Open up land sales to foreigners in Indonesia. Invest now so you can take advantage of the skyrocketing prices later. The impact on locals would be similar to what I've described above. This sort of scenario has already occurred in parts of Indonesia.
RE: Indonesian house price index % change year on year 07
Your description perfectly fits the London market over the last 10 -15 years. Exactly as you say! It's getting so bad that all those rich people living there ( a garage sold for £250,000 last year!) are getting a bit worried about it all because they don't have any nurses, policemen, garbage collectors, teachers, ie "normal people" that can afford to live near enough to them to do their jobs. What value wealth if you can't get your garbage picked up, your children taught, your streets guarded?
The only difference is that the government didn't have to change any laws - it's always been allowed for foreigners to buy there. The rise in wealth for the general population has led to the highest and longest increase in standards of living in this country in recorded history! I mean they all have inside toilets now - wow!
Soon all the Australians will want to come back.8)
Look at Thailand for a good comparison. Bali would change but that's progress.
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