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Roy, milan,

I understand your feelings about Bush: I also look at this bumbling idiot and I try not to feel sorry for him now, because he does look pitiful. But the man is a total idiot, projected in a position he should have never been in. According to the Lancet, his arrogance has cost the lives of more than a MILLION Iraqis (1,2 Million, as of today), 2-1/2 million Iraqi refugees, 4,200+ US soldiers dead and another about 30,800 horribly wounded, a country who did not threaten the US totally destroyed, the US Constitution violated repeatedly, the US reputation in ruins. And I am not talking about Afghanistan. SOMEBODY HAS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Stupidity is not an excuse!

In an interview, immediately following the "shoe incident, Bush said, in all candor, something like (I paraphrase): "I don't know why the guy was mad at me." Bush, is so full of himself, he just DON'T get it: he is beyond help.

But he must be held accountable, and as such, the man is a WAR CRIMINAL by all international and domestic standards, so let us not get fooled and remember who he is. For God's sake, this is not ancient history, it's happening NOW.

I’m not going to argue with you Daniel, because in the end, we are in far more agreement than disagreement. It’s too bad that the Bush we’ve been seeing these last few weeks wasn’t there eight years ago!

Milan! Welcome home!

Tin,
Neither GW or, birdshot Cheney will ever face domestic legal action for their painfully obvious crimes or, an international tribunal for war crimes either, even though they made Saddam Hussein look like a common school yard bully by comparison.
I'm going to boldly predict that Obarry will give them a walk, as he will be expecting the same free pass from a future incoming administration in another four or, eight years.
You see, they are all cut from the same filth encrusted cloth and that's a problem no one seems to have any solution for.
Afghanistan is looking to be more and more like Obarry's Iraq every day. Why won't he do the sensible thing and pull all of our troops out of both countries?

Don

tintin wrote:
I understand your feelings about Bush: I also look at this bumbling idiot and I try not to feel sorry for him now, because he does look pitiful. But the man is a total idiot, projected in a position he should have never been in. According to the Lancet, his arrogance has cost the lives of more than a MILLION Iraqis (1,2 Million, as of today), 2-1/2 million Iraqi refugees, 4,200+ US soldiers dead and another about 30,800 horribly wounded, a country who did not threaten the US totally destroyed, the US Constitution violated repeatedly, the US reputation in ruins. And I am not talking about Afghanistan. SOMEBODY HAS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. Stupidity is not an excuse!

In an interview, immediately following the "shoe incident, Bush said, in all candor, something like (I paraphrase): "I don't know why the guy was mad at me." Bush, is so full of himself, he just DON'T get it: he is beyond help.

But he must be held accountable, and as such, the man is a WAR CRIMINAL by all international and domestic standards, so let us not get fooled and remember who he is. For God's sake, this is not ancient history, it's happening NOW.

EXACTLY !!!!

It’s too bad that the Bush we’ve been seeing these last few weeks wasn’t there eight years ago!

It's too bad he was anywhere at any time. Eight years ago he was all for protecting and supporting Palestine's right to exist. My, how his message changed over the years.

Then again, why the US administration keeps backing Israel has always been a mystery to me. GWB Jr, arguably the most stupid an inept US president of all time, (and that's no mean feat, since there've been more than a few others who could take the crown), is a blatant lunatic. How he got re-elected is either an indictment of US-style democracy or simply more evidence of how corrupt, both morally and financially, the US really is.

The current dreadful fiasco unfolding in the Gaza strip is not on. I believe it doesn't really matter who started what or when. Israel and Hamas are like a couple of competing bullies in some kind of weird school playground, but with deadly consequences. Like many other thinking people have said, it must stop immediately.

The UN Security Council acted too late in its condemnation. Its ineptitude makes a mockery of what it supposedly stands for. Allegations against Israel's war-crimes should be investigated by independent and impartial bodies. But so what? I think that Israel is not even a signatory nation to the body of nations that are party to International law agreements.

I think that the Israeli government has succeeded in generating even more hatred against itself at a huge humanitarian price. Well done, Israel...

The Bush administration should hang its head in shame. It'll be interesting to see how president-elect Obama deals with this, and other, atrocities perpetrated under the auspices of the Star-spangled banner.

Hey Johnny,
Obama will maintain the status quo. I'm sure you couldn't help but notice who he's been choosing for his administrative team. The US will continue to support Israel's genocidal policies, up to and breaching the point of all out war with anyone who attacks them. You see Johnny, our government, media and most institutions of higher education have long ago reached a saturation point in regards to Israel sympathizers because of this we've lost our objectivity and ability to make rational decisions concerning middle-eastern policy.
Afghanistan will be pulled from the back burner, where it's been simmering, to a front burner where the heat will be turned up to a boil.
The only "change" coming from his election has been that of face and race but nothing more.
Our citizens and the world at large were flummoxed by a gigantic parlor trick, designed to keep a chronically befuddled and mostly blind American public rolling back on their heels dodging low blows. (low blows ie; theft of trillions of tax-payer dollars, bailouts for the perpetrators of this theft and repeated violations of constitutional law.)
Low blows delivered by a government who obviously at this point in time, has their own best interests at heart, rather than the people whom they are supposedly serving.
I'm positively sure I'll be lambasted by other forum members for this POV and that's because a bitter pill swallowed with an extra-large slice of humble pie is so terribly difficult to swallow.

Don

Don

I could be wrong but I think you are a bit of a cynic

Hey Sumatra

Obama will maintain the status quo. I'm sure you couldn't help but notice who he's been choosing for his administrative team.

Sorry to hear that and not sure if that's going to be the case or not. The picture you painted is not very different from the one in my mind.

That makes both you and me "cynics", in Jimbo's eyes.

"Virtue is the only good and the essence of virtue is self-control".
Doesn't seem like there's a lot of virtue going on these days, let alone self control, on the world stage.

Excuse me while I try to post another letter to Al Jazeera.
How many more sleeps to go for Israel?

Jimbo,
Cynic indeed. If one where to simply use whatever powers of critical observation one has, it's plain to see "change" cannot be effected with the crew he's chosen. For god sakes, Geithner is a tax cheat! He's selected a tax cheat for Secretary of the Treasury!
If I'd evaded taxation in this manner, I'd most likely be locked up and upon release from incarceration, any of my future earnings would be garnished heavily until the debt was satisfied. Now, before anyone starts shooting back at me with any banal rationalizations for Geithner's actions keep in mind, he crossed the line and broke the law period.
Obama should be running and screaming in the opposite direction from this bum Geithner but he's still pushing his selection publicly and it'll probably go through. How's that for ballsy? He's already operating like a man who knows he'll never have to face any consequences for his actions.
Actions speak louder than words.
The supreme court of puppets won't even allow Attorney Philip Berg's motion for conference concerning Obama's natural born citizen status to go forward. In other words, Berg isn't even allowed to ask for permission to ask a question about O'Barry's natural born citizen status!
All O'Barry has to do is provide the vaulted copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate for inspection by Attorney Berg's document experts. (who should be selected by an unbiased third party) Instead of choosing to shut the mouths of his detractors once and for all by providing the requested documentation, he's opted to hide smiling behind a wall of lawyers.
Again, actions speak louder than words.

Don't listen to what they're saying, watch what they're doing.

Don

Hi y'all,

court has come to a conviction.....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090312/ap_ ... ea/ml_iraq Could have been worse for the guy..and the defenselawyers will probably appeal this ruling.
anyways...thought I put the link uphere..,
friendly greetings, Gilbert.

Mr Durgham al-Zaidi got 3 years. Hopefully, it will be reduced on appeal, especially if al-Maliki knows on which side his toast is buttered. al-Zaidi is a true WORLD hero for doing what millions, no, billions of people would have wished they could do themselves, but like me, had neither the opportunity not the terticular fortitude to do.

al-Zaidi is a fascist thug and got what he deserved.

don't think his appeal will be awarded with a reduction of his sentence. Unless he would change defense-lawyer(s), because the guys who are defending him now, are grasping at straws. I dont even understand how he could say that he's innocent of the charges?? I mean it is on tape, no mather what the excuse/reason is, he did throw the shoe didn't he? Don't know if he can plead (in Irak) not guilty for the reason of temporarily insanity?, hahaha.
Tintin...world hero, doesn't take much to become a hero in your book? For me personally, heroes are the US and other allied troops who left their lives in some no good patch of land called Irak, (Iran/Afghanistan included), under false pretense of fighting for freedom.
I dont blame GWB for this, since it's a whole industry (and people) behind the decisions the US-Presidents makes. I also don't blame GWB for any discomfort he brought to the Iraki people.
Now a little off-topic (sorry)
Like in so many cliches...the saying goes -your enemy is my enemy, therefor unite our forces-(sjiit and what's that other faction??) against US, now the US is no longer seen as the biggest enemy...so their 'pact' is over and fighting amongs each other again. Strange people .
Friendly greetings..........Gilbert.

ps: tintin, I do Understand what you meant, but Hero is just a too big of a word for a shoethrower, don't you agree?

Gilbert,

Obviously your training in the law department is nil. Mine is also zero. However, there is a minimum that one should know about the law and, believe me, it includes entering a plea. By entering a "non-guilty" plea, one gets a court trial. Remember that the court considers you innocent until proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This means that the prosecutor must give evidence to the court to prove beyond a reasonable doubt you are guilty of the offence. It also gives you a chance for a plea bargaining to a lesser charge, which works most of the time.

In the case of al-Zaidi, his lawyers advised him to plead "non-guilty" to the charge of "attempting to assault a visiting head of state." They were hoping to convince the court to reduce the charge to "insulting a visiting head of state," which was more appropriate, but they failed. However, the case was so politically charged, with the Americans pushing behind, I believe he is lucky to have gotten away with only three years: I thought he would get "life."

I am sure that you will have noticed that on the other hand, many US soldiers have gotten away for murdering in cold blood Iraqi civilians, men, women, and children, and their punishments have only been a dishonorable discharge. So, three years for throwing a SMD that's a little over the top!?

al-Zaidi is a hero in the sense that he had the cojones to do what millions would have wished to do, but did not have the opportunity or the guts to do it. I am sure that it was not premeditated. It was on the spur of the moment, when an uncontrollable hate took him over, as he thought of the estimated million of his fellow Iraqis who had been killed thanks to the mass-murderer, Bush, standing in front of him, apparently very proud of himself for all the misery he had brought to Iraq.

However, I must retract my calling him a "hero," as I think I got a little carried away on that one: the word "hero" has seriously been devalued recently, and I don't want to be contributing to it. But I am VERY impressed by his courage and convictions. If I had been in his shoes (no pun intended), I wonder if I would have had the guts to do the same thing, for two reasons:
1) Although I sympathize with the Iraqi people rising against the invaders, I am not an Iraqi, and
2) I am a coward.

Anyway, it's just a matter of perspective, and he is certainly a hero to many millions of people throughout the Middle East.

As for the American soldiers in Iraq being heroes, please, don't get me started on this one…

tintin wrote:Remember that the court considers you innocent until proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.:

location location location..........depends where you are doesnt it?

ive heard from people that this isnt the case in Yemen and Oman.

And im also told its not the case in Indonesia with drugs charges .

Im pretty sure our shoe hurling buddy would have had his eyes gouged out and his family massacred if the shoe had have been thrown at Saddam, or any other Middle eastern leader for that matter.

Certainly not a defender of GW, but everything in perspective.........

A shoe is OK but obviously you would have not condoned it if it had been a hand grenade, or would you. Now we have established that principle how far can you go? Be interested to hear your opinion.

Shoes OK
Knives OK
Guns OK
Bombs OK

Minor injury OK
Major Injury OK
Death OK

Make your choice by answering yes or no to the above.

In mine he was wrong although I understand his feelings but two wrongs do not make a right ,otherwise tit for tat killings are ok. Sorry Tin Tin I do not accept you are right here.