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RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
This sounds to me like the green eyed monster called jealousy rearing its ugly head. :shock:
Sorry that I have no tolerance for heresy, or inaccuracies when it comes to discussing the historical artifacts, indigenous art, and history that I have devoted the majority of my time studying.
Rather than attacking the messenger, you might try to address the message, that is, if in fact you know anything about the culture of Bali, to show where I am wrong.
You write,
I’m sorry to say, I don’t know any of them. I only know expatriates...and they all seem to maintain patriotism to their homeland...me being no exception. :lol:There are many expatriots in Bali
And finally, you are right. My well educated wife, and her family, do not suffer fools gladly. Moreover, I can assure you that anyone who has been on this forum that has been lucky to meet Eri is totally blown away by her.
Anything more you would like to say?
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
Only that: 1. Sorry, I am not at all jelous of you Roy.Anything more you would like to say?
2. I never said that you were wrong; I was merely commenting on your style of educating us with your decidedly empiracle authority. I was trying to make the point that many of us have had unique experiences in Bali, none of which, I'm sure, are any less magical than yours. You are not the only one!
3. Ma'af betul. I do not use my spell-check. My bad. Next time I'll just shorten the word to "expats" to be safe. Nothing gets by you, eh?
4. Did you just call some one a fool?
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
kacang
I hate to say this but I believe you've hit the nail on the head. Against my better judgment, I'm adding some more fuel to the fire. Watch out for the sparks to come.
I, too, really don't understand why Roy does this, seemingly incessantly. The latest behaviour that's starting to bug me is his posting of giant jpeg images within forum posts. Nice as they are, in their own right, surely he could trim them a bit better so as not to take up so much web-browser real estate. After all, there is a perfectly functional images gallery on this site. In an older post, when I (foolishly) offered him some assistance with his images, he declined. After all, he's had a fantastic Photoshop tutor and there's nothing new he needs to know. And I bet you his "tutor" was the finest of his breed anywhere on the planet...the rest of us should only cringe with embarrassment or envy to see such consummate techniques displayed before our very own eyes....Roy - your ego is so over the top...... You seem to find it necessary to put yourself above every other Bali lover/expat by insisting on your superiority with regards to all things Balinese...
Please don't misunderstand me here. I do believe Roy has a lot to offer. After all, 3000+ posts can't all be wrong. And I don't believe he's one of those Americans that appear in this extraordinary little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkYfYa8ePI
I'm positive that he can instantly tell us how many sides a triangle has, or what the religion of Balinese is. If you haven't seen this video yet, I recommend it wholeheartedly. It's absolutely amazing.
:roll:
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
I’m perfectly willing, and very happy to put this latest discussion aside, both with you Kacang, and you too Phil.
However, if either of you have a problem with my no nonsense delivery, and no pulled punches approach which is inherent in my discussions about Bali, my village, or my family, then I say too bad. You always have the right to skip over my posts and ignore them. Or, you can petition Bert to have me thrown out of here. Trust me, he has considered it.
Truth be told, Kacang has only posted three times on this forum since first signing on in early June last year. Does anyone recall reading anything salient to Bali from this poster? I haven’t. And no, Kacang, nothing gets by me, nor does it get by most expats who have come to embrace Bali, succeed, and have found a wonderful life here. The “real deal” is that most established expats wouldn’t think of spending any of their time here...and that is the utter truth, like it or not. I do, but I’m not offering any apologies for my frank talk.
As for you Phil, what can I say? Have you EVER offered in ANY post anything regarding Bali beyond your own personal opinion, which is usually bad?
It’s a rhetorical question Phil. The answer is clear.
So, while I’ve got your attention Phil, what is your REAL problem with those jpegs? You’re very transparent Phil, as once again my question is rhetorical.
I don’t have a lot of time to spend on school boys that wish they would, and their would might be Bali, however over all the years this forum has existed, I have presented a ton of informative posts here, seeminly, most often in the style you two guys have a problem with.
I say to you both, get off your butts and present something here of use and value. You both sound like old ladies at church.
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
Thanks for your rhetorical questions, Roy. And even though I do know the meaning of "rhetoric", I will, nevertheless, add this.
According to you, no. What about yourself? Aren't your posts your own personal opinions? Or have I missed something again?...As for you Phil, what can I say? Have you EVER offered in ANY post anything regarding Bali beyond your own personal opinion...
:oops:
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
You're getting there, PHILOr have I missed something again?
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
Hi Roy,
I'm back after a short hiatus, and ready to continue our conversation on pakaian adat Bali dan lain-lain.
There is an English proverb which says that "there are many ways to skin a cat," and if this proverb was to be rendered in Balinese, it would read "there are thousand more than many ways to skin a cat." What I am getting at is that as an expert in Balinese things, you should at least be aware of this "proverb," but some time you seem to forget it… I did mentioned that much when I wrote in my post of last Thursday
So, as you so rightly pointed out, I miss-judged your picture, in which you model a "formal" attire for going to a cremation, and you are indeed wearing a sarong (in the real meaning of the word). You say that there isAlthough everything is possible [in Bali]…
You should know that there is no need to wear a sarong to get such a geometrical pattern. I, and many other Balinese that I have seen in many temple ceremonies, get the same pattern with a kamben, (except that in my case, the kamben almost reach the ground). Also, when I wear a batik tulis kamben the way it is worn in Yogya, the same "geometric: pattern is achieved. Which brings me back to "the many way to skin a cat."An easy way to tell that is the way the sarong hangs in front of the saput in almost a geometric...rectangular manner.
Which also brings me back to the "sarong" subject. Yesterday, I had a meeting at Harvard University, Cambridge. I took this opportunity to drop in at one of the libraries to consult Fred Eiseman's books, Bali Sekala & Niskala. I own such books, but they are with some of my stuff in Bali. . I remembered that he had a chapter on "clothing," and sure enough, it is Chapter 17, in the second volume of his opus. I assume you will accept Eiseman's authority on Bali and Balinese things, wont you? Well, I had almost plagiarized him when I wrote
He wrote in his book,Kamben is the generic name for any piece of cloth wrapped around the waist. The traditional man waistcloth is a sarong, and sarong means “tube,” or “sheath.” Like I wrote before, it is a piece of cloth whose ends has been sewed together to form a tube, ergo the name. sarong
Like I have said, but you still insisted that you were right and I did't know what I was talking about, the word sarong is being used loosely to also mean kamben. So, you and many people don't differentiate between the two piece ofgarment, but that does not make it correct. Especially when you invent a new name to fit your theory and call a sarong a "tube sarong" (a tube tube) :) . However, after much useless discussion, you finally admitted that there was a difference…The traditional male waistcloth is called a sarung, some times kamben sarung. (Kamben is the generic Balinese word for any cloth used to wrap the lower body). Sarung means "sheath" or "tube." A sarung is a two-meter length of cloth that has its ends sewed together to form a tube.
Which also brings me to Eisemen's strong warning to the reader in the preface of his two books. Personally, I have found it to be so true, I think that it is worth quoting
Finally, I should point out another instant when you get carried away with your "righteousness." I had written:There are a few important points the reader of this series must keep firmly in mind. Anyone who purports to write about "the way it is in Bali" is either ignorant or a liar. One would think that local variations in culture on such a tiny island would be insignificant. That is not the case.
Which you immediately deniedKamben is the generic name for any piece of cloth wrapped around the waist.
But I had written "generic." Anteng is just the particular appellation of this particular piece of cloth.This is also not true, especially in Bali where the most important garment worn about the waist is the anteng, or sash.
The punch line of these above few lines is that you should be well to consider that, although you know a lot about Bali, it is most particularly about your own village and the special environment of your immediate family. You should realize that some other people know as much about Bali, if not more, even though they might live in different situations. For example, Eisemen is not a permanent resident of Jimbaran. Yet, he IS an expert on Bali, but he also happens to be a modest person. :wink:
Keep on smiling.
Daniel
_____________
"War is terrorism on a bigger budget."
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
Thanks for an excellent article. This is so full with important information for people who want to come to bali to live.
RE: The Practicalities of Moving to Bali
Jogry,
If your comment is addressed to me, thanks.
Because of some internet articles as well as the cyberbali website that I run, I receive a surprising amount of email asking about moving to Bali. I thought that this forum would be a good place to post the article that started this thread because of all the traffic that is generated here.
Regards,
Bruce
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