Yet a newbie says hello

[LarsDK]

Hi all,

My name is Lars and I'm from Denmark. A long time lurker I'm now a poster :-)

I have a question I hope someone can help me with. My indonesian wife and I are planing to purchase a piece of land in Bali this July.

We were married in Denmark 10 years ago.

My question is do we need to get our marriage legalized i Indonesia before buying the property?

I've seen it mentioned a few times before, but never with any explanation as to why.

Regards,

Lars

[Bert Vierstra]

Hi Lars,

I am an ex Kopenhagen ex-pat, jeg har boet i Versterbrogade :)

(30 years ago)

Foreigners are not allowed to own land directly, as you may well know.

Marriage is a legal unity in Indonesia (unless you have a marriage contract, prenup, things are a bit different then) and therefore an Indonesian woman owning property while she is married to a foreigner may run into trouble when there is some sort of legal dispute about the land....

If your wife has an Indonesian passport where nothing about the marriage is mentioned, and she will need a KTP as well, its still tricky.

What I just want to say is, that a marriage with an Indonesian woman, without a prenup, and buying land, may not be the best idea :)

This has been confirmed by my notary.

an Indonesian woman owning property while she is married to a foreigner may run into trouble when there is some sort of legal dispute about the land....

Bert, can you expand on that a bit? What trouble are you talking about?

I'm interested because this is the same scenario for me.

[Bert Vierstra]

Well,

the thing is that a marriage is a legal unity, and you are Oz, and your wife is Indo. Things bought by you or her, will be owned by both. In case of land this is impossible, foreigners can not own land.

Now suppose, just suppose, that your wife buys land from someone, it all seems ok, but then the brother of the owner sues the owner for something like heritage problems, they may try to find a way to undo the sale of the land to your wife.

If you don't have a prenup, they may go after the legal unity thing.

[Bert Vierstra]

I just heard this somewhere, and I asked my notary some time ago, and she confirmed that there may be issues in cases like that...

I never heard of any real live court cases though.

Dewi and I have an Indo prenup for this.

[LarsDK]

Thanks for your explanation Bert.

Vi bor i Hellerup nord for København :-) Amazing you remember any Danish 30 years after you've been here. It's not exactly an easy language.

So a prenup is the important thing. Not the registering/legalization of our marriage in Indonesia. Of course getting an Indonesian prenup would probably require that anyway...

Ok that explains some situations I have heard about too. There were some "mysterious" problems with the documentation or certificates, people couldn't pay and ended up in jail.

However I'm not sure I follow 100% because in the case of a sale being overturned surely the market value of the land have to be repaid to the purchaser. Also what more can be gained other than the land itself? Are you talking about being "held to ransom" because a building may have already been erected?

[Bert Vierstra]

So a prenup is the important thing. Not the registering/legalization of our marriage in Indonesia. Of course getting an Indonesian prenup would probably require that anyway...

I guess so.

I will try to get some more definite info and procedures next time I see her.

Not the registering/legalization of our marriage in Indonesia.

If you are in the same situation as me your wife will have a stamp in her passport that might give you away. It is a requirement that Indonesians residing overseas declare their intention to keep their Indonesian nationality. When we did this the consulate stamped my wife's passport.

[Bert Vierstra]

However I'm not sure I follow 100% because in the case of a sale being overturned surely the market value of the land have to be repaid to the purchaser. Also what more can be gained other than the land itself? Are you talking about being "held to ransom" because a building may have already been erected?

Well, in case of good willing people you may be lucky.

But, usually the actual sales price is quite different from the amount that will be in a sales contract, since tax needs to be paid. 5% for the owner, 5% for the buyer. There is market value, and there is a minimum value you can get away with paying tax over.

I would not bet on any money being returned...