Harus Bahasa Indonesia?

[Bert Vierstra]

Once again the use of foreign languages in Indonesia is likely to generate considerable controversy both here and abroad as the new Bill on Language (RUU Kebahasaan / Bill) seeks to regulate how and where of Indonesian language use. This is conceivably a threat for both Indonesians and foreigners living, working, and investing in Indonesia.

However, the Bill goes even further to require all foreigners working in Indonesia to be proficient in the Indonesian language. In principle this is not an ill-conceived demand, the question is the workability of the proposal and the uniform standards that it will require to be put into place. From a business and investment perspective, all future labor and human resources hiring decisions as they relate to foreign staff will require that the prospective expatriate staff meet the required levels of proficiency.

For example, before a language school could hire an expatriate native speaker language teacher that teacher must first be proficient in Indonesian before they could be offered the position. It is accepted that communication between the expatriate and the local staff would be greatly enhanced if the expatriate knew Indonesian however the knowledge of Indonesian is not critical to the ability of the expatriate to perform their employment functions.

http://en.hukumonline.com/app/dms/conte ... d8647a449d

[BaliLife]

I personally wish English was banned in Indonesia - let's face it, Indonesians use of English in publications, stickers, menus, etc doesn't do the English language any favours.. You;d think if one was going to run off 5,000 copies of a flyer utilizing sporadic English headlines, they'd at least have somebody who is vaguely familiar with English run their eye over it first.. I'm not just talking about small family businesses wither.. Pick up a copy of HSBC Premier Magazine, BCA Prioritas or CITIGOLD Indonesia - these are publications targeted at what is supposedly a high net worth / highly educated market, yet the nonsensical use of English headlines (often littered with grammatical errors) leaves me speachless..

Why headline an article in English when the article is in Bahasa and it's targeted for an Indonesian audience.. As far as I'm concerned this problem goes far deeper than the everyday use of language in printed material in Indonesia - it really undermines (or brings to question) the identity of Indonesia and Indonesians..

I was in a mall the other night with a group of friends and we were having a grand old debate about what's "broken" in Indonesia.. I said, "I don't know how you can fix it, take a look, in this shop and every other clothing shop in this mall.. Do you see one Indonesian model in any of the marketing material? 99% of the models are Bule", yet (at least in that mall), I was probably one of only two or three Bule in there.. Go to Japan, Hong Kong, Korea or even Thailand - they embrace their own identity and their own language.. Unfortunately the common misconception in Indonesia is that by running an ad in English brings it up a notch.. (A point I absolutely disagree with).. Ok, fine - in Bali, many ads use English for justified purposes in that many of the ads are targeted at tourists..

Proper Bahasa itself to me is also part of the problem.. It's a "mask language".. It masks the beautiful, culturally rich languages (or dialects if you so wish to call them) such as Sundanese, Javanese, Balinese, etc.. I'm not suggesting there's a way around this particular problem given so many different dialects are spoken in Indonesia, but to me, having a language used almost exclusively in the press and formal communication that no-one speaks in day to day communication is a problem that really undermines Indonesia's identity..

Just my 2c worth on this..

Ct

[BaliLife]

leaves me speachless..

:oops: You see, even I can't get English right...

"speechless" this was intended to be of course..

[Markit]

In my humble experience most languages have a "mask language", as you put it - in English it was "The Queen's English" or as it was spoken by the BBC and many of the upper classes, or those who thought themselves so. This form of English held sway in England up till the end of WWII but has now been supplanted by a swing in the opposing direction - towards a more commonly spoken variation which seems to combine diction and usages from a number of the colonial sources that have settled in the UK in large numbers, primarily Jamaican and Pakistani.

This leads to an interesting situation in the UK where my 8 year old blue eyed, blond haired nephew now speaks with a Jamaican English accent using Urdu diction and English slang.

Funny old world isn't it?

In Germany the "mask language" has been Hoch Deutsch or high German. Again mainly represented in the nationwide television shows but then ignored for the the local programs which are sent in a variety of local dialects which in some cases are not understood by their fellow countrymen. Hoch Deutsch is still considered to be the only correct usage.

America has had the homogenizing effect of television for considerably longer than Indonesia and in many cases parts of Western Europe but it wasn't too long ago that even there the "mask language" was a form of New York, or at least east coast, dialect.

For all I care there can be as many languages as there are people on the planet or just the one, I just wish most of them would Shut the F*ck UP!

[fordprefect]

For all I care there can be as many languages as there are people on the planet or just the one, I just wish most of them would Shut the F*ck UP!

Be careful what you wish for....

[Roy]

This proposed legislation has been kicking around the floor of the DPR for a number of years now. I can recall this being discussed at least back in 2005. Like the proposed anti-pornography bill, it comes and goes while the legislatures test the waters. There is a certain ironic twist to this language bill however, when the fact is that bahasa Indonesia is far from being 100% absorbed by the Indonesian population.

I once read that there are an estimated 400 indigenous languages in Indonesia. No one really knows for certain, as some languages still used by remote tribal cultures haven’t even been fully studied.

These languages should not be confused with dialects, as they are not dialects of another language. For example, neither Javanese or Balinese can be considered a dialect. Each are considered classical languages as they both have their own script as well as literary history.

If anything, Bahasa Indonesia can easily fit the definition of a dialect...that being of Bahasa Malay, as Malay is the common ancestor of Indonesian. In use for many centuries throughout the archipelago, and well before Indonesia was even a country, Malay was the common trade language, thus it made perfect sense to derive Bahasa Indonesia from this source. Malaysians I’ve spoken to here in Bali have told me that they can comprehend about 70% or so of spoken Indonesian...more than enough to get by and be understood. Indonesians that I have known who have traveled to Malaysia say the same.

I would question just how many Indonesians truly identify themselves and their culture through bahasa Indonesia. This though, is a topic I think best left to the Indonesian members of this board.

[milan]

We, Indonesians, can't even speak the thorough and proper Indonesian language as a whole but dialects/colloquials only. Mostly, if one really must express it correctly, then it is in business letters, books, newspapers and movies.
I for one, do not find it appealing when foreigners try to speak in Bahasa. And I heard the Japanese too are not so keen on having foreigners speak their language either. Quite honestly, it's because I don't find it attractive and rather cumbersome to have to listen to the correctness of the conversation which is too rigid for my taste. But that's my personal take only.

[BaliLife]

yes, there are many petty shysters around - but i don't think it's cultural or specific to bali.. it's typical of a place where the local population is not too "well off" and there are plenty tourists to take advantage off.. i think from my own experience it's worse in italy (where I love) - people try underhanded techniques to screw you left, right and... centre.. (and italy has a far higher per capita income than bali so i don't know what their excuse is)..

ct

[BaliLife]

yes, there are many petty shysters around - but i don't think it's cultural or specific to bali.. it's typical of a place where the local population is not too "well off" and there are plenty tourists to take advantage off.. i think from my own experience it's worse in italy (where I love) - people try underhanded techniques to screw you left, right and... centre.. (and italy has a far higher per capita income than bali so i don't know what their excuse is)..

danger of having two tabs open - sorry, this post was intended for the "cheated by a friend" thread..

i can't speak formal bahasa.. i can only speak colloquial indo & the colloquial blend of javanese and bahasa that's spoken throughout east java.. i don't dismiss the importance of being able to speak bahasa as it's used in formal business - but when i meet with indonesians in indonesia on business related matters and they ask me if i can speak bahasa, i try and explain that i can speak colloquial - but this is a remarkably hard thing to express.. maybe i just don't know the word..

does anyone out there know the indo word that describes the level of bahasa that the following samples fall into??

- kamu mau kemana?
- kok kamu mau makan itu? modelnya nggak enak!
- buat apa?
- maaf ya pak, nggak boleh ngomong disini, diam aja!
- aduh, matamu merah sekali!

[Jimbo]

[quote][kamu mau kemana?
- kok kamu mau makan itu? modelnya nggak enak!
- buat apa?
- maaf ya pak, nggak boleh ngomong disini, diam aja!
- aduh, matamu merah sekali!/quote]

For me I would say quite low with some javanese slang thrown in. Market language I call it and use it every day when I am there.

As Roy says with over 400 lauguages Indonesian or to give it its proper term Bahasa Melayu is the Ligua Franc of the archipleigo and without it both business and communications would be impossible.