Good Expat, Bad Expat, Sustainable Expatism

[Bert Vierstra]

The last few days people have been falling over eachother, leaving the forum, sending emails and PM's about the ongoings on the forum.

Now where has this all been about?

Simply said, IMHO, its about the attitude people have towards their hosts, and how other people feel about this attitude.

So, what makes a good expat, and what makes a bad expat?

And what makes people want to work and live in a third world country? Idealism, greed, opportunity, (unconditional) love?

Does the status of Indonesia, a "poor third world country" immediately means that besides paying taxes (do you?) you also need to do something extra?

Is the ideal expat local politically correct, interested in learning daily about their new hosts culture and religion, paying his or her taxes, supporting charities with at least 10% of his or her salary, reaching out to help otherwise, buying and eating locally, speaking the language, using a local bank account?

Or is the ideal expat criticizing his hosts openly using his or her own criteria only, taking his or her own culture and religion with them, avoiding tax, not caring about his or her (social) environment, importing all, and talking to his or her fellow country people only, sending his or her money immediately abroad?

[lumumba]

Well Bert you’ve started a really good one.

As for making a good Expat: :roll:
Have a basic understanding of customs, be polite and pay attention.
It can also shock and dismay if we're not informed and prepared for the differences. It's vital to know acceptable cultural practices when in a foreign country.
You must appreciate the differences
Learn about local customs, traditions and standards of etiquette.
Take cues from the locals, especially when uncertain how to behave. Observe the behaviour of the general public and follow suit. (Follow suit maybe not all the times)
Respect local customs
Be aware of local laws and expect no special treatment for ignorance of them.
Remember that a smile is understood around the world. Be polite and patient and appreciate the local customs, traditions and ways of doing things.
The Expatriate behaves is largely determined (but not all the times) by the origin of each Expatriate and depending on a number of factors
And again as for making a good Expat, keep in mind that no matter how long you're there, you will always be viewed by the natives as American/Italian/English or even better BULE, and as such you will represent your own country.
I will never understand the Expatriate who moved to another country only to hook up with other Expats to run drinking games every day or even weekend. Try to be a good neighbour, and make sure you understand the norms of your area.
Get to know the local politics and really understand the context of the region will make a big difference in your experience and how others think of you, this will avoid to be just another clueless BULE.

Make comments about Indonesia and Indonesian orang I believe it is expectable, IN MODERATION.
Much more to add but I leave it to others.

For what concern the bad Expat I suppose it will be the opposite of what I just said
CHEERS and Regards :D

[milan]

Expats should be free to do, think, participate, express, feel anyway they wish in their adopted country as I personally wouldn't like to be limited either in my ability and freedom to do the same. Just by using diplomacy or non provocative language and respect would be sufficient in conveying their desire to communicate or contribute. By opting on staying uninvolved in the country they live in also is their pregogative to choose. After all, freedom is what we all enjoy. Certainly in any of our experiences living in different customs and cultures we'd encounter things that would delight, shock, discover, learn if willing and teach if asked that forms our opinion on that country. But if one were to ask: "would you give up the experiences you went through from this country you live in?" My answer would be NO. I am what I am for all the experiences I've been given and blessed to have.
Therefore, by using common-sense and a certain degree of understanding of the host country I believe one can be a very good expat and even can derive all the goodness what that country has to offer. I always try to see, take, enjoy the positivities of this country I live in and I'm proud to say that I've lived in Italy on and off for 23 years today. I even feel lucky to have absorbed, yes - the passion, the fieryness?, the boldness, the frankness that even my husband who is Italian at times cringes... :lol: :lol: :lol: But then he'd put me to a good use as to save his you-know-what... Me, this used to be this docile Asian girl... :)
I'm just kidding...Oh, in case one day we have the opportunity to have a gathering among us the forumites in Indonesia, please give me 3 weeks after arrival to allow my metamorphosis to take place in order to adapt back to my usual sweet-nature person once again. Thank you.

[SG]

Hell, Bert, just be true to yourself and what you believe in. Nothing else matters. Trying to fit oneself into a box just to keep others happy is just silly, as is saying that someone from somewhere else, no matter where they reside does not have the right to comment on matters or affairs they care to as long as it doesn't offend.

The idea that we are 'guests' and others are 'hosts' and therefore we should mind our mouths is nonsense. It always has been but the digital word, and especially Web 2.0 has broken down these barriers forever.

I belong to a bunch of forums around the world, current affairs, political and musical, and the idea that national barriers prevent one from commenting would be seen as vaguely ludicrous in all but the fringes of this one.

One of the other forums I was on (as a lurker) for a while was an Australian one and a couple of Indonesians were regulars, living in Australia and commenting. There was never any thought to saying 'you are guests, shut up'. I belong to an NZ current affairs forum and there are a bunch of Malaysian students and a Serbian guy who are very opinionated about NZ..no one ever suggested they bite their tongues.

[Roy]

Bert writes:

“Does the status of Indonesia, a "poor third world country" immediately means that besides paying taxes (do you?) you also need to do something extra?”

Reading Lumumba’s excellent reply, I cannot think of anything to add, except, well done!

[Roy]

Ma'af, I messed up my last post. After quoting you Bert, I meant to reply to that quote with:

I’m sorry to correct you Bert, but Indonesia is NOT a third world country, rather it is classified by the United Nations as an emerging nation, and has been so classified for quite some time. And yes, I pay taxes.

[lumumba]

Hi Roy,

Thank you very much for your comment, most appreciated. :lol:

Cheers

[milesb]

An interesting topic.

When I was in Ubud last year, a few expats were in a cafe I was in (admittedly Casa Luna) making snide remarks about some of the locals. They made no attempt to say anything in Bahasa, and came across as great ambassadors for loud and rude people.

That, on top of some of the threads I have read across other forums (I've been lurking on and off here for a couple of years :)) makes me wonder why some people move overseas.

Me? When I'm in Bali, I avoid meeting other Australians at all costs. If I wanted to do that, I'd stay home. Same goes for eating US brand junk food, etc, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Following the host nations customs, and learning basic language is just basic politeness IMHO.

Miles.

[Jimbo]

Lumumba (or is it Patrice :D )

I think your statement was excellent.

[mimpimanis]

Lumumba (or is it Patrice )

Or is it Renato :lol: