Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

[BaliLife]

yes, well what happens sometimes milan, or should I say rather often, in australia or canada, in a shop, a restaurant, etc, people will speak chinese to my wife.. She chuckles and says, "sorry I don't speak chinese, I'm indonesian" - but some of my friends here do speak chinese obviously..

Ct

[hinakos]

I also believe that those who don’t understand this are short lived here. As I have been writing for many years…expats in Bali ebb and flow like the tide. I have seen as many eventually leave as I have seen come here.

For many, Bali is just another exotic island on the globe. Well, she is hardly that, and as odd ball as it may sound, she does have a life of her own, and it’s a life that has sustained the Balinese for many, many centuries. I have little doubt, in spite of the continuous and growing outside pressure, that this cycle will continue.

Yep, expats ebb and flow like the tide, and coincidentally enough most expats seem to leave Bali at about the same time as they're completely bankrupt. But theres also a few that are somehow someway in a position whereby their professional lifestyle sees them moving from one place to another, yet they dont even know how they got to where they are now after so many years in so many different places. Far from being confused and hopeless, they may just have a plan for themsleves and their offspring that doesnt involve them being in one place in one timeslot, but nonetheless ensure theirs and their offsprings' place on earth .

Just because they leave or move on (not including the bankrupt get rich quick real estate/developer/retirement fund embezzler type), doesnt mean they are a failure for leaving. There are those that move on because the fruit is riper in another particular orchard (financially speaking!) at that paticular time, and they believe that that will ultimately benefit thir offspring. Having said that most ive seen leave Bali ive had to buy a plane ticket for......

I have no doubt that Bali will ultimately survive. Everyone is becoming concerned about the sinking water table in bali and the contamination of ground water and the pollution here. Yes, Bali has sustained so may thousands for so many years, but never before in such short a space of time have we had so much unbiodregable pollution and so much globalisation and so much marketing and advertising zombifying our young. Its hard to pararell the past few hundred or thousand years with what we are about to encounter now. She will ultimately survive...but shes not going to get better for a few cycles yet. I admire those that defend her.

Ay 36 years of age and having lived in more countries than most visit in a lifetime, i havent yet found my place. Im lucky i have a girl that has had the same kind of global exposure i have had, and understands that for me, putting my roots down here in Bali (permanently) is as as terrifying as having a tenderlion steak cable tied to my vas deferens as im hoisted over a pool of pirhanas. She also understands that putting my roots down back in Australia is as equally terrifying for me. We could go back to her place in the Czech Republic, as land prices are falling by the day where the US is proposing to build the Eastern European misslie defense system.

If i knew i was going to stay the rest of my years in Bali Id protect her with all i had too.

Am i a good or bad expat? I dunno, i think its more about being a good or bad person.

[Sydjapan]

Hi...I think Hinakos hit it simply by saying that it is more about being a "good or bad person" rather than a good or bad expat. If we are genuinely good people, we will naturally do what we can to be kind, considerate (of culture and differences), and helpful (do what we can to help locals and expats we have contact with) - regardless of the place we happen to be living. At the same time, others will respect us and forgive our mistakes, knowing that we will strive to learn from them.

[chilli]

I was about to give the same reply.
I agree if a person is kind, respectful and honourable in their nature they will be so no matter which country they are in.

[dug]

In general, 'I believe' most people are 'tribal' by nature and this is a little about what this discussion is about. Expats,well they seem to cross cultures better (not all!),or are less afraid of crossing that barrier of cultural identity.Some people are just more content in the familiar.I think that people who respect other cultures and are humble about their own ,fare much better and adapt much better.

[milesb]

When I was in Ubud last year, a few expats were in a cafe I was in (admittedly Casa Luna) making snide remarks about some of the locals. They made no attempt to say anything in Bahasa, and came across as great ambassadors for loud and rude people.

How do you know they were expats? The only expats I know that go there are the ones attending AA meetings on the ground level.

It was hard not to hear their conversation about living in Bali, and how their relatives come to visit and think it's all so "quaint". Then again, I was in Casa Luna, using their wifi for my laptop, having a long black western coffee. It's not like I should judge, given my setting.

Having said that. I've only visited Bali a few times, yet every time I go, I practice more bahasa, and learn more local foods and customs. I'll be over for Nyepi next year, so that'll be an eye opener.

Miles.

[milesb]

Milesb,
Excellent points, during my travels throughout Indonesia I very rarely cross paths with other bule, preferring the company of the locals and their cuisine. For me, this is what it's all about.
There are others though, mostly drunken, stupid tourists and fringe business owners ("fringe" meaning their profitability margin sucks in their country of origin), the latter come here to open up shop and take financial advantage of a plentiful and cheap pool of labor, that they don't have to pay a benefits package to.
It's these types of expats, who usually aren't interested in assimilation and aren't shy about expressing their low opinions of the local inhabitants. No matter how much some of them pay lip service to the contrary for public appearance purposes, their primary goal is to increase their profit margin.
The Don

Ah yes, I know exactly the types you mean. I fear that one day in years to come, that the western chains and drunken tourists will outnumber the locals, across the entire island, not just in Kuta how it is now.

Miles.

[Jimbo]

Hinakos

I have read your posts with interest and enjoyment. I think you will bring a lot to this forum.

[SG]

Ah yes, I know exactly the types you mean. I fear that one day in years to come, that the western chains and drunken tourists will outnumber the locals, across the entire island, not just in Kuta how it is now.

The biggest customers for many of the western chains are local Indonesians. Lets not get too precious about this, but KFC, Starbucks and Pizza Hut are very much targeted at Indonesian customers and are owned by local companies here. KFC just announced 40 new outlets across Indonesia and Java's towns, including an increasing number of smaller ones, are full of them. Indonesia is one of Starbucks' few growth markets and it ain't expats buying most of the flavoured fluff.

The same with the likes of Carrefour and other retail chains.

The much noted shift in the sort of tourist coming to Bali, with the fall in the lower end ocker market and the rise in the villa tourist has, to my eyes at least improved the drunken yobbo percentage. That said, driving through Jl Legian the other night, it still looks like the uglier side of KIngs Cross in the mid 1980s around the intersection with Poppies II.

We were in Seminyak yesterday. We had a business lunch with my wife's export group and then went for a drink, the first time for many many months, at Ku De Ta (I hate the place but we were talked into it). It was quite busy despite the fact you couldn't buy a drink there as were all the restaurants in the area. Afterwards we drove down Jl Legian as we had to drop someone off, and Kuta / Legain was deserted.

[mimpimanis]

it still looks like the uglier side of KIngs Cross in the mid 1980s

That reminds me of my first visit to Asia with my mum.

After backpacking through Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore & Indonesia for about 6 months we ended up in Kings Cross, Sydney. (cheap hostel area- for those that dont know) Within a day we saw drunks throwing up on the street, women with black eyes and thought "back to civilization"

[SG]

Hi...I think Hinakos hit it simply by saying that it is more about being a "good or bad person" rather than a good or bad expat. If we are genuinely good people, we will naturally do what we can to be kind, considerate (of culture and differences), and helpfu

Which is pretty much what I was trying to say early in this thread..be true to yourself. There is no such thing as a defined good or bad expat. It's a non question to me.

[SG]

Within a day we saw drunks throwing up on the street, women with black eyes and thought "back to civilization"

Indeed. I lived just off Kings Cross for six months in 1979. It was a horrifying experience I've yet to completely forget no matter how hard I try.

The closest I've been to that was being dragged into The Bounty to see a band a friend was managing last year. It reminded me of that bar at the beginning of the first Star Wars movie..terrifying and revolting (and I've seen a bit...I used to own a club some years back). i really do understand why many Indonesians are horrified by the area (then again, Jakarta has it's own dark side).

[BaliLife]

King's Cross is like wonderland compared to Vancouver's Downtown Eastside - the junkie capital of North America..

After spending the afternoon in the west with some mates (actually working), we went to a birthday party for one of our friend's daughter - was a nice evening.. I then had to drive my buddy back to the west, where he dragged me to a pub.. Where I lost a few games of pool and a few small bets.. Was a fun day.. Usually saturdays are as boring as bat shit here..

Ct

[Jimbo]

I thought I would post this which is my companies approach to being a good expat. I make no comment or judgement but leave that for you the reader.



The Company Leadership Team would like to emphasize that all expatriates must adhere to the Company Code of Conduct and behave in a tolerant, prudent and respectful way at all times whilst on assignment. Key Expatriate responsibilities as stated in the Code of Conduct are as follows:

As guests in Kazakhstan you must respect the culture, legal system, political and social institutions.

Avoid activities or relationships that might lead to conflict with members of the local community and/or the local authorities.

Conduct yourself with dignity and self-respect when engaging in legitimate social and business functions where Kazakh culture and traditions such as the making of speeches and giving of toasts is often expected.

Respect that as temporary residents in the Republic of Kazakhstan you are accountable for your actions under Kazakh civil and criminal statutes.

Do not become intoxicated. It is illegal to be intoxicated in public in the Republic of Kazakhstan.

Consider what would be acceptable and responsible in your home country.

As guests of the Republic of Kazakhstan all Company employees are required to abide by the laws, rules and customs of the country. Employees who violate either the laws and rules of Kazakhstan or the Company Code of Conduct can be subject to prosecution by the authorities and will also subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment by both Company and your parent company.



Be aware that the Company will not tolerate behaviour of any kind which results from substance abuse, aggressive attitudes and dangerous behaviours. Nor will the company tolerate any discriminatory behaviour towards any employee or member of the general public in either work or non work related situations.

Company and all its employees and affiliates are respected members of the local community and on a national basis. Please ensure that you adhere to the Code of Conduct and all laws of the country so that we can continue maintain the high standards we have set for the past ten years of our company.

[chilli]

If only every expat would adhere to this list, what a wonderful world it could be

[Sumatra]

It's a shame Col. Sanders has declared war on Indonesia. Wherever the western diet becomes popular heart disease will surely follow.
Here in the states, fast food giants put just about whatever they want into the food, the regulations they're supposed to follow are a joke. After god only knows how many people have vapor-locked because of partially hydrogenated oils, these creeps are finally cutting trans fats out of the food they serve but not the amount of MSG. The FDA knows how deleterious to health these two substances are. Trans fats didn't work work out too well as a lubricant for industrial machinery, so they found a way to incorporate it into the food supply......duh.
Is there a regulatory body that watches over them in RI?
McDonald's was caught several years ago soaking their fries in pork fat, some vegan group tested fries from several different McD's at an independent lab to determine this. There was a lawsuit but as I recall it was settled out of court without much fanfare and never mentioned in the press again. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg.
It's too bad the Indonesian government would even let these filthy establishments set up shop in their country but I guess money talks louder than common sense. On the bright side, for every super-sized serving, their knowledge of coronary artery disease will rise exponentially.

Don