Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

[O]

As you say Roy, there is often a blurry line between education and religion, not just in Bali but in all of Indonesia. If it wasn't for the pesantren and other Islamic schools, there would be million more uneducated people in Indonesia. Because the government does not yet have the capacity to address the needs of the 17000 islands and its population of 220M, some religious institution have taken the slack and are offering free education to kids that could otherwise never dream of it, as it usually touches the poorest and most remote communities.
I know what some of you -I don't need to name them- will say "that's where the Bali bombers were educated, great choice". Now I'm not saying that these schools are always a model of curriculum and pedagogy but at least they exist and I would bet that 90% of them don't promote radicalism, just like 90% of Indonesian muslims are moderate ones. But maybe some people would rather have a few dozen more million uneducated -and probably unemployed as a result- young muslims roam the streets of Indonesia? That said, I'd also rather promote secular education but between no education and religious education, the choice is easy.

[Jim&Pat]

sorry if for the lecture but I would hate to have some of you go out there with the best intention and end up screwing up.
Good luck!

Excellent post O,
For those who do try and screw up which i would say most of us do, learn by it and try again
better than not doing anything because we are scared of failure.

[kauaibobby]

Bali life, you are very kind and thoughtful.
I would like to do some good for some people in bali exspecialy children since i do have five kids myself.
For a year now i have been trying to get to bali to live and havent made it there yet.
Hopefully this sept. 2008 i will be coming there.
I guess well just have to wait and see.
I never been to Bali or any place on your side on the world.
But it sounds like fun and good experiance for my kids.
My one son Beau who is 13 now will be coming with me.

Well keep up the good work everyone and sorry i havent written in a while, i will try to write more often.

Bob and Beau

[milan]

Now I'm not saying that these schools are always a model of curriculum and pedagogy but at least they exist and I would bet that 90% of them don't promote radicalism, just like 90% of Indonesian muslims are moderate ones.

You are exactly right, O!
Indonesia has been fine in their system of education for decades without needing an International body to meddle which what has happened in Africa where the UN staff themselves who have been the perpetrators of wrong-doings on the poor, the underage and the needy of its people. Until now, do you hear of any persecutions on these individuals except a temporary backlash on media coverage just as proforma that hey've done their job in exposing the problem but for all you know, how long has it been taking place, really?..and why only recently has it been brought into the open? Yet, it was swiftly swept under the rug without noone bringing it to the fore again hereto.
So far, this hasn't happened in Indonesia. Frankly, this is where my fear on this type of aid/assistance from the Westerners who with the best of intention feel hey have the tools and know-how to set up an education board for village schools but based on their format, culture and values of their country of origins which could perhaps be incompatible with the culture and customs of Indonesia and its people.

My mother was the head principle of advanced teachers' school (Sekolah Guru Atas) who had to do several visits every year to far-flung corners/places of Sulawesi to facilitate students to take their exams so education could be within their reach and things went perfectly well.
Mother herself raised and put 5 sons to school (her being one of the few in her time as an Independent woman and father as a pharmacist and an occasional doctor) - my five brothers completed each of their studies as : an economist; an engineer; a lawyer; a doctor/ophamologist and a banker. I do admit that they did continue although having obtained their degrees in Indonesia to earn their doctorship in USA, UK and Holland.
And so in regard to helping others. Well, let's just say: we just do it - (as Nike ad fittingly says). We don't talk about it. And that's where I come from.
PS. I have quite a few friends who have formed a foundation to build schools and so on or help the needy be they in Indonesia or/and the world. Also, it's enough to just join the Womens Club in order to devote one's time for good cause by opting for any charities available or offered especially in helping the locals in their own hardships that they may go through. Doing that as an expatriate living in Indonesia, I would say would be a time well spent!
As for myself? I'd rather not talk about it.

[mimpimanis]

kauaiboby wrote

For a year now i have been trying to get to bali to live and havent made it there yet.
Hopefully this sept. 2008 i will be coming there.
I guess well just have to wait and see.
I never been to Bali or any place on your side on the world.

That's a big step to move here when you have nver even visited. Can I ask what made you choose Bali?

[BaliLife]

Indonesia has been fine in their system of education for decades without needing an International body to meddle

just to be clear, i've not challenged the quality of indonesia's schooling.. i think the challenge is that there are so many kids who don't go to school, because of their families economic circumstances..

so it's not me saying, "our school systems are better than yours" - not at all.. in fact up until a few years ago (and perhaps until present), literary rates in australia, the US, etc were cited amongst being equivalent to that of the developing world - and cuba has the highest literary rates..

so, the idea i have is not to try and 'better' the education system in indonesia - because i don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it (again, i don't know enough about it to suggest there is, but from what i've seen it seems to work fine).. my idea is to try and get more kids into the school system.. period..

ct

[FreoGirl]

Thanks for all your replies, some interesting input.

My intentions are not to starts some sort of large NGO or program - when I lived in Lombok last time I did 'just do it' (as Milan suggested we do), and various expats whom I spoke to also were involved in various projects. I still am, having taken on some responsibilities that continue whether I live in Indoensia or not.

However, as those that have lived in Indonesia know, the need can be over-whelming. You start small, and very quickly you can be inundated with requests for assistance. Or as you look more into what you are involved in, you see how big a need there is for help. This led me to have to put the brake on a fair bit, as I knew I couldn't commit long term. Hopefully next time I will be in a better position.

My other blockage was money. I am not in the position to provide a great deal in funding - I can pay for me own expenses in whatever I do, but I can't fund it to any great extent. That is the headache for any charity works I guess.

And the other big hurdle is inertia. Lots of good ideas, and time just slips by while you think about it.. where to start, where to start...

One thing I have found is it helps if you do talk about what you are involved in - if you are looking to get others involved either through funding or time contribution. It is amazing what can happen when people share ideas. And yes, you need to be careful how you do this. Even when not specifically looking for contributions from others, I often found people amazingly generous - if I told them what I was up to, they often wanted to assist.

Oh, and I really like the way Helen Flavel has organised her foundation. It is run by Balinese, not westerners. I really do admire what Helen has achieved, and continues to achieve.

[Roy]

Speaking of Helen Flavel, here is her first group of kindergarten school graduates from The Helen Flavel Foundation Learning Center. This is from last month. Now they go off to elementary school being able to speak English, some Japanese and basic computer skills.

“Overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is an act of justice. It is the protection of a fundamental human right, the right to dignity and a decent life……” -Nelson Mandela

[Jimbo]

Roy - I don't disagree, that's why I said I'd only fund education.. Culture & religion can be funded by whoever wants to fund it.. But not by me..

Interested to know what countries in the world you could do that. The only countries I am aware of where religion does not enter into the school system were when the communists were in power and since the fall of communism that has mostly changed.

Religion is a part of all communities and ergo part of all cultures and intermingled in secular society even in those like France who ban it. Why? because people want religion in their lives and whilst there are religious fanatics who may promote the harm of others to get their own thoughts across, Fanatics like you are balancing them, but as for the rest you are as bad in trying to put conditions on your donations and few organisations will be able to take your money under such conditions.

Lighten up and let us have a bit of live and let live. My last word echo's Roy in that you will never be able to donate to Bali.

[Lou]

It's astounding an Evangelical Atheist would want to live in a place like Bali. Keeping religion at bay from daily life will involve supreme self delusion as well as a constant stream of "donations" Still there'll be screaming into the pillow when awakening in the wee hours to acknowledge the funds went in whole or part to some form of religious ceremony anyway. Even our taxes fund religion. As to evangelizing the cause, great idea! The bloke from Nazareth would commend the optimism as he would probably have just bypassed the place.

Bali! why in the name of Gaia pick Bali. A little apartment near the Vatican would be less stressful and the climate is quite good as well.

[Roy]

Lou, I don’t think that writing in the Ubudian language is allowed on this forum!

Well done! I’m still laughing.

The bloke from Nazareth

I think I'll file that one away as a keeper!

[BaliLife]

Jimbo, I'm a little surprised by your post.. It's, well - how can I put it nicely - absolutely off point..

Read my first post.. The idea is provide food necessities to families who keep their children enrolled in school.. NOT FUNDS - so I think I can very easily ensure the money is contributing to the propogation of religion - unless they sell the rice I give them..

I don't ram religion down my kids throats and I don't let others do it - but I don't tell them my viewpoints either - I will truly let them decide for themselves.. How many practicing 'moderates' give their kids that right? Pretty close to NONE - by time the kid is able to walk they've already been baptised, christened, asked to close their eyes and utter some garbage off with their hands joined.. As for your views on how moderate religion is ok.. Looking at the effect on society over the past 5000 years - moderate heroin use would have been far healthier..

Ct

[Roy]

BaliLife, I have little doubt that the Helen Flavel Foundation would really appreciate all the 100 kilo bags of beras you would care to donate. Off hand, I can immediately think of at least six other first rate NGO’s who would equally appreciate such a donation.

Your willing generosity is to be applauded, and I am not patronizing you with that comment.

However, I will say that when you give, it should be without reservation and most especially, without expectations. In fact, the greatest expectation to avoid here is hearing the word, “thanks.” For the Balinese, it really isn’t up to them to say “thanks.” That comes from another source...of which karma is just a part.

The happiest people in Bali my friend, are those who live day by day with no expectations...and that also includes expats.

I should take you to my Guru some day. No worries, as he hates to talk about religion even more than I do.

[BaliLife]

Roy,

I appreciate your offer of meeting your guru, and hope to one day - as I've heard you praise him much.

I have no expectations - other than the hope that a few less children will be sent to work when they should be in school, with their friends.

Ct

[ronb]

in fact up until a few years ago (and perhaps until present), literary rates in australia, the US, etc were cited amongst being equivalent to that of the developing world - and cuba has the highest literary rates..

ct

This surprised me .

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_rates, Cuba is 2nd highest at 99.8%, Australia and US and many other countries are on 99.0% and Indonesia is at 90.4%. This puts it 88th in a list of 177, and is in the middle of the other ASEAN countries.

[BaliLife]

Ronb - I have no choice but to eat my own words on that quote.. I remember clearly a few years ago there being much talk about the 'failing of school systems' in australia and the US, and there were many concerning statistics out that ranked these 2 countries below many developing countries.. In any case - I was very wrong with that reference as it pertained to literacy rates so it seems..

Ct