Bali Expat Forum - Bali Travel Forum

[Adam]

Hi folks!

Just a quick note to say an early Selamat Hari Raya Idul Fitri to our muslim guys and gals on the forum and I hope you've all been having a peaceful Ramadan thus far. Today's my last day on the 'puter before heading on over to Bali in a couple of days with my beautiful bride and later over to Jawa Timur to experience my first Idul Fitri with my Indonesian family. Though I've not (yet) chosen to adopt Islam I'm very excited and proud to be part of this celebration and I can't wait to meet my extented family, many of whom for the first time owing to their work commitments abroad in Indo and other parts of the world. Thanks to all for help you've given me over the last year and ma'af if I've trodden on anyones toes.

Assalam Aleikum, talk to you all in a few weeks!

Kind regards,
Adam

[Ipanema]

Waalaikum Salam Adam

[drbruce]

Enjoy yourself Adam.

[Jimbo]

Bali in a couple of days with my beautiful bride and later over to Jawa Timur to experience my first Idul Fitri with my Indonesian family. Though I've not (yet) chosen to adopt Islam I'm

Sorry to be nosy Adam but from your message it would seem your wife is muslim and you are not. I was under the belief that you had to be the same religion for the marraige to be recognised as legal in Indonesia...is that not so?

[Adam]

Hi Jimbo,

Sorry to be nosy Adam but from your message it would seem your wife is muslim and you are not. I was under the belief that you had to be the same religion for the marraige to be recognised as legal in Indonesia...is that not so?

Dead right buddy. Ani and I married Kawin sirih at the start of the year which isn't a legal marriage but more like a 'makeshift' wedding used by people in the village who cannot afford a full blown and expensive legal marriage. By having this ceremony we gained the acceptance and respect of the family and kampung to behave like any normal married couple and keep the gossip and moral police monkeys off our back. Our legal marriage is here in Oz on the 15th of November where religion of bride and groom is irrelevant (like I believe it should be) and will be legally recognized by Indonesia, regardless. As a dedicated scientist I believe it hypocritical and mutually exclusive that I can have a religion as I firmly believe in the theory of evolution etc. etc. Too each their own

In terms of Idul Fitri, sadly I didn't quite have the enjoyable time I was hoping for. In my eyes, anyway, it simply reminded me of one mass brain freeze a la christmas here in Oz when rational thought evaporates for a month, except this brain freeze involved 6 times the entire population of my entire home country . It was impossible to find a car to rent so it took us 14 hours to get from Kuta to Genteng (in Java) with four of us jammed into a distant cousins crappy old Kitana alongside (and underneath!) 4 big suitcases and a 40 kg bag of salak (don't ask....). That was the easy trip! On the return voyage we had planned to catch the bus back but the bastards in Genteng wouldn't stop for us so we waited on the side of the road for 5 hours before getting the message. Getting back to Kuta took 20 hrs and involved a bemo, lots of walkin, 3 becak, lots of walking, the Gilimanuk ferry, lots of walking, 3 motorbikes, a minibus, lots more walking and finally a taxi all with a 36kg suitcase in tow (which must have something to do with travelling with a female I'm guessing, seeing as all that I had in it was 6 pairs of jocks, 4 shorts and 4 singlets......).

Sadly, I'd have to rate the last trip as my least enjoyable trip yet, for a variety of reasons. My health let me down big time which probably was the catalyst for having sh*t on the liver, I endured a bad flu for a week, followed by a really bad stomach complaint (very, very unusual for my cast iron gut) followed by a recurrence of the flu for another week. I think I had a total of 6 healthy days out of 25. My brother in law lost his job (in Kalimantan), the diamond fell out of Ani's engagement ring but the saddest part was one of my best Balinese friends lost his wife thru sheer stupidity.

She'd been ill (major weight loss, fatigue, nausea etc) for about a month when we arrived but the local doctors had insisted nothing was wrong with her and simply gave her vitamin injections. Of course I and a mutual Aussie expat friend smelled a rat and insisted she visit a western doctor at BIMC (at our expense) but the elders would have none of that because it was 'black magic'. Phooey . How, I don't know, but her husband really didn't have much control over preceedings (or maybe he believed their crap) but sadly the last 2 1/2 weeks of her life were wasted with paranormals performing ridiculous exorcisms and nonsence ceremonies when she should have been parked up in a hospital bed. On the 5th of October, 26 year old Wulan, wife of Ketut, mother of 2 beautiful daughters (ages 4 and 2) and one of the prettiest and sweetest ladies I've met passed away. What a waste. Rest in peace sweetheart.

[chilli]

Adam, how sad . poor woman and poor little kids with no mum now.
this is tragic. I dont know what to say !

[Ipanema]

Adam,

You went through a sorry and sad experience and I can understand your frustration in the 'black magic and paranormal' as I am in the same situation. My fiance has an ulcer but the family say it is black magic and I suspect my future father-in-law has prostate cancer but they keep giving him medicine at the hospital hoping it will get better. My father died of prostate cancer and a few of his friends and my FIL has all the symptoms.

On a brighter note my Idul Fitri was enjoyable. First time I was out in 'public' in Australia praying as a Muslim and it was a very rewarding experience. I was nervous to say the least and was the only white woman howere they were plenty of white Australian men there. My other experiences included Catholic, Pentecostal and Christadelphian (sorry about the spelling).

I hope you can recover from your last trip and enjoy the next much more.

Rest in peace Wulan

[Adam]

Hi Ipanema,

Me too, I have a great-uncle (mother in laws brother) who is suffering from supposed 'black magic' and in my disgust learnt that indirectly my money is paying for the witchdocter/warlock /wizard/shaman fraud that is happily taking the money and delivering (ha! surprisingly ) no cure but heaps of advice/potions/bullshit ceremonies etc.

My mother in law has been paying for this stuff with the money we send to her, to take care of HER. I cracked the sh*ts when I found out and threatened to stop sending her anymore money if this continued. I happily offered to take him to the best hospital we have in our area however, but for my money the poor old fella has bowel cancer which they probably couldn't treat there anyway. Despite the complete lack of any positive assistance by the spook, they are still somehow convinced it is a better option than modern medicine. These paranormal cranks have really got there customer base brainwashed, thats for sure.....

[Ipanema]

Adam

One thing we have to learn, is tolerance of their customs/beliefs, ( I know, it is a croak of shit) but they have been doing that for thousands of years. My finance took me to a paranormal and I went along because he and his family believe it.

We know different but you will not convince them that what they have believed in for many years is wrong (even though we believe/know it is). All you can do is ask your wife to keep talking to her family and put pressure on them buy talking to try and change things.

One thing is you have to have patience, and I know it is easier said then done. The melding of Indonesian/Australian is hard enough with communication problems, different customs and beliefs. I converted to Islam because I went to share that with my fiance and his family. They are moderate Muslims and the feeling I get when I am their is magical. They go to paranormals because they cannot afford to go to doctor or hospital and it is instilled in them for centuaries that that is the right thing to do. These beliefs stem back before they were Muslims.

Before I converted I read many books on Islam, not Indonesian but mainly Muslim clergys from America and they do not believe in paranormal or magic.

I am not trying to lecture you but I do not want to see friction between you and your wife over something they cannot help.

Put yourself in their position, would you if you were sick go to a paranormal................no you would not. They, when they are sick would not go to a doctor. I am trying to give you their point of view also. Be patient.

[Adam]

Ipanema,

I agree with you wholeheartedly on all points and learning and appreciating diffrent beliefs is, to my mind, one of the joys of a cross cultural relationship. In fact, playing along with the mumbo jumbo boogey man stuff is a whole lot of fun at times and my my extended family has a lot of fun playing along with me and my reactions to some of the stuff, for example the light fingered babi nyapet I mention in a different thread (the one that steals all my cold Bintangs out of the fridge ) . Barongs are another personal favourite, we all know there is no such thing but I'm mesmerised by the bloody things in any dance performance (similarly Chinese dragons...).

However, there is a point where the beliefs become dangerous and I certainly don't think its rude or arrogant to try and assist in serious matters such as health, when we know the right thing isn't being done, especially to a family member. If only to clear ones conscience, we're obliged to offer educated advice don't you think, as a reciprocal benefit to our adopted families of having a bule among the ranks? In the end, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink......

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the reply Adam. I am sorry things are not going so well for you both at the moment and wish I could offer advice that would help your situation but it is outside my area of expertise.

I hope things bring you and your wife closer and that you both look forward to November which is not so far away now. Good luck to you both.

[Adam]

Hi Jimbo,

No worries, everything's sweet between Ani and I, in fact we both get crazier by the day . Oddly, she couldn't wait to escape the village and swarms of screaming kids and breathed a sigh of relief when she stepped out of Perth Airport! As crappy a trip as I had, I still sulked and grizzled all the way home

[Kadek]

Hi Adam,

Sorry to hear about your stories. It is sometime very disheartening when an illness is not treated and the person ended up dying.

Some of the stories I have heard involved people loosing trust of doctors and modern medicine after not being cured for a long time. It is often then that people turn to traditional treatment. I am not sure if they really believe that they will be cured that way or whether it is more to help themselves to feel better mentally. I think the second factor is a truer reality. From my own experience, there are many Balians who operate more like a western naturopath and psychologist. They understand and are more educated about traditional medicine instead of just relying on some crazy ceremonies. It maybe that people feel better by visiting them, they can learn to accept their illness in the wake of not getting medical treatment either through lack of proper diagnoses or lack of money to follow through to an operation. (sorry if I again use money as a reason, I don't want to be seen as always waving away problem this way).
Of course common sense would dictate that such herbal medicine will not deliver cure for terminal illness.

My own dad is a Balian and a priest and I grew up knowing what he does and he operates more like a naturopath with the use of herbs, roots etc as ingredient for the medicine. I often heard through him, stories of crazy Balians where treatments are administered in barbaric ways involving sometime physical violent and other weird methods that result in more suffering instead of betterment. Even he expressed concerns about these kind of practices.
I wish people are more educated and are more aware of the options and choices they have instead of just blaming everything on Black Magic. Maybe some people are more susceptible to such belief as compared to others.

Regards
Kadek

[chilli]

Kadek, i can definatly understand your point. Often with serious illness when there is no turning back for your life, people in all beleifs (be they Balian, catholic priest, sharmanic, whatever) the patient
turns to their own faith, they at least put their soul to rest this way and offer their mind some acceptance and peace.

so i can really respect, but as you say, there are also charlatans and the two are not to be compared.

It is a sensitive issue for certain.

[Ipanema]

Ipanema,


However, there is a point where the beliefs become dangerous and I certainly don't think its rude or arrogant to try and assist in serious matters such as health, when we know the right thing isn't being done, especially to a family member. If only to clear ones conscience, we're obliged to offer educated advice don't you think, as a reciprocal benefit to our adopted families of having a bule among the ranks? In the end, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink......

Yes I agree 100% that we are obliged to offer educated advise. From my own experience (and it maybe different from yours as I am a woman marrying a Muslim man) I get the feeling that my future father-in-law is the head of the house and he guides the rest of the family and old traditions die hard. I will admit that I went to a "what we would call a quack" when in Makassar. I had a very bad back and doctors in Aus told me to live with it. Went to this guy and for 30,000 rph and 7 minutes I have not had one hint of pain and that was in March 2008. This guys waiting room was full of people. All you can do is keep pushing your views and hopefully they will listen.

Kadek your post is what I was trying to say but just could not get it out. Thank you.