A Change For The Better

[Roy]

While Bert’s forum has been busy with discussions surrounding cultural and developmental issues, I thought I’d throw this tidbit up and with dual purpose.

Purpose number one is to illustrate in very clear terms just one tiny aspect that Western influence has had on the Indonesian archipelago. Hunting rare and exotic species of animals was once a big draw for tourism to this area, as illustrated in this 1926 edition of the Orient Touring Company book...the only British touring company in existence at that time. This book is a part of our extensive archive of maps, prints, books and photographs dealing with the East Indies dating back to the 16th century.

Purpose number two is to illustrate that change, in and of itself does not necessarily mean cultural change or a disintegration of culture. The Balinese still practice traditions within their ceremonies that are animist and derived from their cultural roots. Personally, I do not enjoy watching ducks having their necks severed at ceremonies, and their blood spilled into coconut shells, mixed with other “ingredients” and then poured over some offerings...but it is essential for the ceremony as determined by the priests and holy men that are charged with the responsibility to decide what is needed at any particular ceremony.

Hunting animals, just for the sport and the pleasure derived from the sport of hunting is a thing of the past...a change most certainly for the better. What possible benefit could this wanton killing have, other than to satisfy the desires of a western “big game hunter?”

Many animist cultures throughout Indonesia still, to this day, kill various animals as part of the rituals of their culture. It is not with pleasure that these animals are destroyed, rather, it is essential to their culture. Anyone attending a major Torajan funeral in Sulawesi will likely loose all their composure when later discussing the horrific slaughter of many buffalos. The smell of blood filing the air has a horrific effect on me, because it smells the same...be it animal or human.

Moving to a foreign land, any land that is foreign to one’s own roots is not an easy endeavor. Assimilating that culture, as opposed to remaining a “tamu” which means “guest” is ten times more difficult.

The choice, to assimilate or not, and to what degree that assimilation is made by any expat in Bali is a purely personal choice, and one they will have to reconcile one day or another. To some degree, albeit small, assimilation is absolutely necessary, as in daily offerings where one lives. This is basic, and so very essential.

I understand and appreciate that on this forum it would be impossible to formulate an absolute consensus of opinion about these vital issues. Each of us that calls Bali home has found their own way, their own unique niche that is required for a happy, productive and long life in Bali.

Not to seem patronizing to Bert, my opinion is that his forum is the only place on the internet (that I have found anyway), where such issues can be discussed, debated, and even argued.

It shouldn’t be too surprising, even to the casual reader of this forum, that differences in opinions and ideas about Bali are frequently offered. Such opinions are often expressed... derived from each contributor’s life experience on Bali, and for certain, none of these experiences are the same. There is no preferred or forensic accounting for such experiences, as they are the essence of our lives...personal and unique.

PS It may be necessary to right click to enlarge this jpeg.

http://www.sundream.com/~majapahit/images/Bali.1926.jpg

[balijeff]

Not buying it.

In fact, I think someone has logged in with Roys account and posted this. Is this his wife? Eri isnt it? Pleased to meet you.

Although Roy may be upset that you did this. You guys seem to have opposite views! Well, they say opposites attract.

Its good to hear you support diversification and integration of mixed cultures. Your hubby doesnt. He thinks its very bad...corruptible. He blames all the ills of Bali on it. You should really work on teaching this to him. In fact, he even said Bali would be better off without bules on it, I wonder if he realizes if this were true you two wouldnt be together?

He has said, repeatedly, that foreginers come, build and develop and this ruins your identity. Of course, we know better. The Balinese didnt make wholesale changes. Yes, some did, but that was their personal choice. They choose to be greedy or lustful or whatever. You didnt. Your banjar didnt. Others didnt as well. You chose to keep your identity and enjoy the best of the outside world! Are you really going to put an elevator in your house? Hahaha. How did Roy talk you into that?

I really liked your part on assimilation. Its true. Foreigners coming in must be willing and ready to change. You know, when in Rome do as the Romans do....Have you heard that one before Eri? Just as the Balinese must choose whether or not and to what degree they accept foreign ways, so to is it for the foreigner. He must also learn of his new home and their ways.

Roy doesnt think so though. I asked him to help me understand 'banjar' and he mocked and made fun of me. Maybe you will tell me what it means. Remind him that assimilating starts with learning. He may be tough to convince on this though, he is really against foreigners mucking things up with their development and all.

Oh yeah, speaking of development: How's the retirement community? Hows the Gallery? All well I trust. I hope business isnt down too much for you, I hear Ubud is hurting...so is everywhere else. Its tough to develop all that land, build buildings and open for business just to have terrorists drive them away. Hey, wait...buisness must be great for you! Haha, silly me. I forget, your gallery is aimed at Balinese right? So no biz is lost! Good for you! Ditto for the retirement project...aimed at Balinese so terrorists cant affect you! Haha...

OK, I gotta get back to work. Again, an absolute pleasure to meet you. I hope to meet you in real life...Its good to know that you have a good head on your shoulders! (Work on Roy would ya dear)

Jeffrey

[pooochie]

Dear Me .. :lol:

I think you two should kiss and make up (as the saying goes)! Or at least agree to disagree.

World Peace Amigos!!

[Tommy]

Great post Roy :idea:

Great "Mark-syndrome part II" Jeff :shock:

Not to seem patronizing to Bert, my opinion is that his forum is the only place on the internet (that I have found anyway), where such issues can be discussed, debated, and even argued.

Very true. I got fed up with the baliforum.com quite fast as their moderator didn't want any realism at all or discuss anything that might be "hurtful" for any potential tourist (especially ozzies). I found the forum to be a facade for tourism rather than for expats or more in-depth discussions.

[Jimbo]

Excellent post Roy. Means more to me than a lot of the other posts you did. This gives me a much clearer insite into your feelings.

I feel in many way the same about Toraja.

[Roy]

Thank you Jimbo and thank you Tommy. Ni Luh, if OK with you, you can kiss him for me! :shock: ...but don't worry, I'll send you a particulate respirator and surgical mask in advance! :D

[Jean Pascal Comte]

Hello everybody
I have been away from that forum for quite a while now, for various reasons, mainly because I have been very busy with work and personal matters. Maybe also because of the fact that staying far from Bali and not knowing when I will be able to come back make it difficult sometimes. I have been nevertheless coming back on the forum periodically since the beginning of this month and must admit I found it a bit difficult to adress posts again. They still are many interesting ones, some interesting newcomers too. But I found the general climate a bit tense, to say the less. Seems to be difficult now to express a simple point of view without being assaulted with bullets and missiles right on the spot. Well, I don't want to interfere in those passionnate debates, I would just like to join my voice to Poochie's (hello, by the way, and thank's for your posts) and call for peace and understanding. I am not against a bit of controversy from time to time, but, there, it is beginning to look more and more like OK Coral !

[Jean Pascal Comte]

Hello Roy :wink:
Just forgot to thank you for your for this thread. I quite agree with what you said. Won't add any comment for now.

[jorzbali]

Oke I have been following this argument from the very start. As a youngster compared to most of you, and as a newbie both to this forum and Bali.

At first I was reluctant to react because as Jean Paul quoted above the tension is just rising too far.
Second, I feel guilty since I should be at work in stead of reading and posting on this forum.
Last, since I am Dutch English isn’t my mother tongue. (Hail, to the spellchecker!!!)

But just because I can’t let go the subject of this argument since it has touched the base of my still fresh thoughts about living in Bali, and I feel the urge to make a contribution to this wonderful medium, I am going to give it a go anyway. I just hope I will survive. :)

I have been a junior debating trainer in the past, and what I have learned from it is that the truth is always in the middle. The other part is that anger of any kind doesn’t help to prove you’re statement at all.

Jeffrey,
I agree with you’re statement that development is development, no matter if it is KFC our a retirement centre. Second I agree that Roy doesn’t always gives strait answers to you’re questions.

However, I strongly disagree the statement that you make that any development has the same economic result to the local community. Also I tend to feel that you’re post miss a lack of sense for environmental and social issues involved. These things aren’t just that black and white to me.

I am not a holy man myself, since I am making my living here with commercial export business focused on the western world, like according to me Roy, you and a lot of other Bali residents do. I do realize though that I am, and always will be a foreigner to the Balinese, and that I have to respect their habits and choices.

Roy, I really think you’re hart is in the right place and reading you’re post, despite you’re angry tone have been a benefit for me, (as well as Jeffrey’s). Still, I have some doubts about some things you say, especially with the word assimilation. I do not believe a person is more respectful to a community by assimilating to it, Europe is the main example that is doesn’t work that way.

I do however think that you have to learn to know the local culture, laws and system and respect and live to them no matter if you agree with them our not to be able to integrate in a successful manner. To me this doesn’t involve following and living by rituals which aren’t yours. To me somebody who is assimilated is not a “better expat” (please forgive me for using this term but sometimes it seams that it is a big competition around here) but someone who probably loved the way of living so much that he decided to adept to them. Choosing to keep hold of you’re own value’s and rituals doesn’t have to mean you condemn others.

I really hope this post doesn’t keep the quoting battle going, since I would really love to read opinions in stead of reading battles.

Live free and let free,

Jorz

[Roy]

Jorz writes:

Still, I have some doubts about some things you say, especially with the word assimilation. I do not believe a person is more respectful to a community by assimilating to it, Europe is the main example that is doesn’t work that way.

Jorz, what I wrote about assimilation is the following:

Moving to a foreign land, any land that is foreign to one’s own roots is not an easy endeavor. Assimilating that culture, as opposed to remaining a “tamu” which means “guest” is ten times more difficult.

The choice, to assimilate or not, and to what degree that assimilation is made by any expat in Bali is a purely personal choice, and one they will have to reconcile one day or another. To some degree, albeit small, assimilation is absolutely necessary, as in daily offerings where one lives. This is basic, and so very essential.

Europe, as an example where assimilation does not work, has absolutely NO similarity to Bali. You are comparing apples to oranges...Bali having NOTHING in common with Europe, or anywhere else in the world for that matter. Yours is a common argument expressed by Europeans (and other western countries) who have neither lived in Bali, nor have any clue what is needed to live here successfully. In Europe, the migration of foreigners has long been as a source of cheap labor, and in reality, assimilation by those foreigners into the culture of the host country was seldom encouraged.

Anyway, welcome to the discussion, and I will forgive you for failing to see that a franchise US corporate business in Kuta (KFC) has nothing in common with a banjar owned and operated retirement community providing free education and medical care for its citizens.